Elizabeth Gerbino wrote:
I've heard David highly discourage this before, due to airborne silicone particles not being good for your health/constant inhalation.

This is true, but let me clarify.

First and foremost, I want to say that I absolutely adore FACE Atelier foundation, and for the few hand-applied applications I do, it'll absolutely be this (or my beloved MUFE Face & Body, as everyone knows). I had used it before in workshops, and finally got a hold of set in Toronto - it's amazing. There's nothing wrong with the product itself, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it on anybody.

The concern however, does lie with putting any silicone-based product through an airbrush. To do this, you're usually required to thin it with 244 or 245 Fluid. While both are absolutely safe on the skin, and have been used by makeup artists for years to remove makeup (including prosthetics), using it in a method that causes you to inhale it is another story all together.

Dow Corning, the manufacturer of 244, 245, and various other silicone liquids used in cosmetic formulation, specifically warns against this in their Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS):

Prolonged/Repeated Exposure Effects

Inhalation: Overexposure by inhalation may damage the following organ(s): Reproductive System

What this refers to is studies that Dow conducted, via animal experimentation, that produced "uterine adenomas", "prolonged estrous cycles, and decreased mating and fertility", and "significant decreases in the number of pups born and the live litter size" when the test subjects were repeatedly exposed to the vapor, over the course of two years.

While the study goes on to say this "exceeds typical workplace or consumer exposures", it's important to bear in mind that this in itself refers to situation where the product is not being atomized, as it is during airbrush application.

These precautions are for room temperature handling. Use at elevated temperatures or aerosol/spray applications may require added precautions.

It should also be noted that for "routine handling" of 244/245, Dow recommends that you wear "suitable gloves", as well as "a respirator" if "adequate ventilation", as determined by "IH personnel", isn't available.

Sounds like a lot of work to put on someone's foundation, hmm?

While the solution would seem to be as simple as avoiding the use of 244/245 in an airbrush, the problem becomes the fact that all of the other silicone fluids, which are recommended to formulate silicone-based cosmetics, come with the same or similar warnings. I recently heard from another artist that the concern was relegated to D4-class silicones, and not D5/D6-class silicones, but all of their MSDS sheets come with same warnings. 

So what does this all mean? If you've used silicone-based products in an airbrush a few times or have had them used on you, do you need to be concerned? No, I'm sure not. If you work in an environment (salon, makeup department, etc) where they're used in this manner every day, is it cause for concern? Possibly. Is the amount of inhalable silicone particles put out by an airbrush even comparable to the studies listed above? Even that's unknown, but similar inhalation studies in the haircare industry seem to indicate that's the case.

But here's the most important question: Do you want to take the chance and find out? For me, the answer is a resounding no. It's why I don't use one in my freelance, and it's why we decided not to do a silicone-based foundation at OCC. Period.

I know that since I'm the owner of a cosmetic line, it's only natural to doubt my intentions, and question my motivations. I can tell you only that my concerns are not brand-specific, and that they predate OCC's inception. Anyone who's taken an airbrush workshop with me prior to that has heard me talk about the same. I believe these concerns are legitimate, and I think the information above speaks for itself.

So Seema, to answer your question if you still want to try it, I'd definitely use water to thin it, if you find that it doesn't pass through the airbrush on its own.

I sincerely hope this helps.

Thanks,
DK

ganeshkarma wrote:
Has anyone tried using MUFE Face and Body for airbrush?

I thought about it but it's so thick, I just keep picturing my brush clogging and never being able to unclog it....MUFE is a great makeup, I love the face and body.

ganeshkarma wrote:
Has anyone tried using MUFE Face and Body for airbrush?

They recommend thinning it with water in order for it to go through. I've tried this in the past and it actually works relatively well, but the longevity was definitely compromised.

But anytime you water down a product, you get a watered-down product - something that's just not performing up to par because it's being used in a way it was never intended to. Besides condensed milk and soup, what else can you think of that benefits from being thinned?

The truth is there is a difference between airbrush and hand-applied foundations. Airbrush foundations are made with special film formers in order for them to stay on the skin. It's what prevents them from just pooling on the skin and rolling off (airbrush water on someone's face and you'll see what I mean). I know when I first heard this, from an airbrush makeup company, I was skeptical, and assumed they were just trying to sell me on their foundation. Through a lot of trial error, I learned.

Monique Heijboer wrote:
If the FA silicon base is hazardous when used with an airbrush because of the silicon inhalation, how would this apply to the (also) silicon based Temptu S/B?
Wouldn't that be just as bad for you? Or am I missing something here?

silicone is fine and perfectly safe being sprayed though the airbrush.  Temptu had explained this here before.  Please people..... dont allow people trying to sell alternate products (competitors) scare you with nonsense. 

The discussion has already been beaten to death on this site.    I'm not going to argue any of the points that we have already discussed  over and over here (and sorry but Im not reading Davids posts so I can only assume by the reaction of others that hes back on the dangers of silicone tirade, if I'm wrong about that, sorry)  as I said before, contact Suzanne the chemical expert and the airbrush expert, she will explain to anyone interested the safty issues...also contact Temptu, they can explain it....

Competitors will just throw stuff against the wall and hope it sticks....thats unfortunately how a few business owners behave.   I suggest if competition is moving in that companies simply improve their own product, thats how to stay on top of the competition...thats what TEMPTU has done...


when I asked them at Temptu a while back during the last mud slinging here by David what they thought about the mud being slung their way their answer was they didnt have time for it, they are concentrating on new products and making what they have better and better....  I think thats smart.  I have the utmost respect for the people over at Temptu....

As a matter of fact.....  I am going to put Temptu SB on sale right now until Junuary 30th....30% off...  this will give you all  a chance to try it and find out why some of the other companies want you to stay away from it.... BECAUSE YOU WILL LOVE IT!  JUST the month of January and then its going back to regular price...so if you ever wanted to try it, now would be the time.


ALSO....if you want to take airbrush classes free  Check out www.makeuprules.com   Sylvia is a great artist (see her portfolio)  she will be teaching  temptu classes free at ISSE in Long Beach at the show (4 classes)  If you buy an entire temptu kit you can take her on hands class for $150.00 Jan 29th 10:30 to 4:30   

If you buy into the silicone nonsense you can always use the Temptu Aqua (water base) but water base will not give you the same look

Ok, going now to drop my Temptu prices

Mary wrote:
silicone is fine and perfectly safe being sprayed though the airbrush.

Oh really? Excellent news! Tell me, what exactly qualifies you to make that determination?

What do you know that Dow Corning, the manufacturer of silicones used in cosmetics formulation, doesn't know?

What do you know that SEHSC, the Silicones Environmental Health & Safety Council, a voluntary organization of silicone manufacturers, doesn't know?

Because they all appear to be saying that it's not.

What exhaustive experiments did you conduct to arrive at that conclusion?

Or are you just trying to make a sale, as per your usual? Granted, a "....30% off..." sale, but a sale nonetheless.

Mary wrote:
Competitors will just throw stuff against the wall and hope it sticks....thats unfortunately how a few business owners behave.

Really, is that the case? Are you speaking from experience?

Mary, are you really so naïve as to think that you come off as an unbiased party in all of this? Or are you just hoping everyone else is?

Do you not think it's obvious to everyone that you too have a vested interested in the subject? Why else would you keep dragging specific brands into this Mary? Especially the ones whose products you sell? When I've not once mentioned them, at all.

CrystalJay wrote:
In my former corporate life Dow was a client and when I look back I think I remember that Dow themselves (http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/ … px?R=309EN) list the product as safe for hairspray on the site?  If safe for hairspray, why not "air" spray..airbrush is what I'm wondering?

This is an excellent question and it's tied into the exact answer.

What the SEHSC study says is that to avoid the serious health concerns associated with it, silicone should only be used in spray appliances that put out particle sizes no lower than "30um with no more than 1% of the particles having an aerodynamic  diameter of 10um or less."

In an aerosol spray, this is relatively easy to control with a standard tip, when used in the typical short, controlled bursts typically associated with the products. But with an airbrush there are tremendous variables that could affect the atomization of the product:

1) What size is the needle/nozzle of your airbrush? Is it .2mm? .35mm? .5mm? And how does that affect it? Aerosols have no needle to affect the nozzle, so even if the nozzle size is similar to a comparable aerosol nozzle, how does that affect it?

2) What PSI is the product being sprayed at? Some people shoot as low as 3-6PSI when applying foundation, others around 10 or 12, and some higher still? How does that affect it?

3) How long does an application take you? How much product do you use during that time? How many people are you working on? Are you adjusting the pressure during that time?

I can't imagine that any cosmetic company out there has all the data that would be necessary to answer those questions. If they have, no information has been presented publically, at least to my knowledge.

And even if they did, it would mean that they'd have to somehow require that the product be used in a specifically-sized airbrush and at a certain PSI to ensure the consistent atomization necessary to meet the above health and safety standard.

Which is exactly why we didn't do one.

Hope this helps,
DK

PS: I can't find where it says 244 is allowable in hairsprays, btw. I see "antiperspirants, deodorants, skin creams, lotions, bath oils, suntan and shaving products, make-up, nail polishes" only. Did you mean to link to something else?

Mary wrote:
someone just sent me a message asking me to clarify the class Sylvia is giving...  they are FREE at the show....the one you have to pay for is the 6 hour one on Jan 29th, it's  a more in depth hands on and its $150.00 if you buy the Temptu kit...  it's $200.00 if you have your own airbrush kit but still want to take the class... You will be asked to use the Temptu foundation since it is a Temptu class.  As you can tell by Sylvias portfolio, she knows what shes doing, I assume (though I have never taken it) that it would be a good class...I'm going to take it if I am not working that day.

Mary,
Do you know how much tickets to the show are? I was considering going myself...I got the email about it from Temptu.

Stephanie Elise wrote:
Do you know how much tickets to the show are?

You can find all the Long Beach Salon and Spa Show ticket information here. Bear in mind that education happens at that show on Sunday and Mondays only.

Incidentally, Beauty Revolution in Los Angeles (at the LA Convention Center) is the same weekend, and we'll be presenting an airbrush workshop (scroll down) there as well, that's also complimentary with admission. Ticket prices for that can be found here.

What any of this has to do with Seema's original question however, is beyond me.

Stephanie Elise wrote:
Thank you David!
I took that friday saturday and sunday off. But of course if a shoot happens....I'll check out the info for both shows. Thanks so much for the info!

Anytime!

David Klasfeld wrote:
What any of this has to do with Seema's original question however, is beyond me.

Agreed... OP stopped being the topic of conversation after about 9th post...

Although if you can get to a show and PLAY with the products and ASK the smart questions directly... you'll be in a much better place to decide what's right for you.

aliPOP wrote:
anyone?

?

I think the question was sufficiently answered.

If you're referring to the last question in the post that was NOT asked by the OP, mixing medium is to be used at the discretion of the artist. The more you add, the thinner the foundation gets.

Jordan Liberty wrote:

?

I think the question was sufficiently answered.

If you're referring to the last question in the post that was NOT asked by the OP, mixing medium is to be used at the discretion of the artist. The more you add, the thinner the foundation gets.

hi Jordan, sorry.. i dont think i made myself clear on what i was asking.. i didnt want to start a new thread on airbrushing FA foundations.. so just kinda tacked my question onto the end of this one...

but yes, you have answered my question i wasnt sure what the go was with the thinner.. wheather it was something you just mixed up to your own liking, or something that needed to be measured.

sorry if i was confusing, and thanks for your help!