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The Secret To Shooting Models
And I'm not saying I've mastered this by any stretch, but the number one thing that separates the newbies from the pros in terms of their pictures is good hair, make-up and styling. I can't tell you how many really attractive models I've seen here, but the hair, make-up and styling (e.g., what they were wearing) was for crap. On the other hand, if you know the most fundamental elements of light and composition as a fotog, with an attractive model and the following elements in place, you're gonna be hard pressed not to take a good picture. Look at the headshot below. All that is is good hair, make-up and styling (making sure the top matches some of the other color elements in the picture). Most of us could compose this picture and it could be taken anywhere. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I don't see many clean, uncluttered pics like that around here. I'm telling you: it's all hair, make-up, styling. Unfortunately, these things cost money, which is something newbies don't always have.  Dec 03 05 05:35 pm Link Scaramanga wrote: I would have to agree with this... Which is the reason I now refuse to do TFP without a make up artist/hairstylist. Not worth it anymore... Dec 03 05 05:55 pm Link I really love those eyes.....WOW!!!! Dec 03 05 05:59 pm Link Stephane Fourdrinier wrote: Thank you! I was hoping someone would see the truth of this statement, but I get the feeling there are more newbs here than I care to admit. Dec 03 05 06:00 pm Link If you can tell me which images on my port were made WITHOUT an MUA, then I will take your position as gospel. - Joe Dec 03 05 06:29 pm Link FYI: I deleted one of those threads... there were suddenly two. In the one I deleted, I also agreed with Scaramanga, not as an absolut, because you can create professional images without stylist/mua, depends on what the goal is... but in general... I think Oddjob was too eager and created two threads.  UdoR Moderator Dec 03 05 07:03 pm Link Scaramanga wrote: First of all how did you paste that photo in the text area? Dec 03 05 09:26 pm Link Master Image Photograph wrote: look at the html code in his quote that you quoted Dec 03 05 09:32 pm Link Scaramanga wrote: Start first with a model, as shown. Nice capture. Dec 03 05 09:49 pm Link I agree...the very very very few times I've had models that had their makeup done by someone familiar with makeup for photography purposes, those pictures looked the best and were the easiest to edit!!!   these aren't the calibure of the OPs pic but the first one we had a MUA on-site with us and the second one, I believe she went to a MAC counter and the guy happen to be very familiar with photography/movie makeup. Dec 03 05 10:08 pm Link I would not say there are secrets to shooting models, although many of the masters aka pros here, want you to think that. In my opinion, it is more about the tricks and tools of the trade. Tricks would be creating props with every day objects, and using image editors to visually enhance photos. Tools would be umbrellas, lights with barn doors, and make up artists. Knowing some of the fundamentals helps too. There are some newbies here whose works rival those of some long timers. Dec 04 05 05:55 pm Link I dare to be different once again. I've been following the posts on importance of a MUA and/or a stylist closely, because many a time these come from fellow photographers with way more experience than I have (just about everybody, lol)and also because I've never used a MUA or a stylist before. However, each time I see a picture accomanying such claim, it makes me think, that there sure is a need for a MUA and/or a stylist - that is when you reach the point at which you cannot come up with an interesting idea, cool pose, setup etc. - when your photography gets rather boring, by deploying a MUA and/or a stylist you can give your picture a brisk once again. It will be the same boring stuff, no appealing pose, nothing cool about it, but the way the model was done up will make up for your poor photography. I'm still open to discussions regarding importance of a MUA and/or a stylist, and I believe there must be more to it, so far however, there has not been a single argument which would make me want to use one, other than the fact mentioned above. Because of my lack of experience, I would like to take advice from you, I just wish you gave me a valid reason. Anyone, can you fill me in? Mark Dec 04 05 06:12 pm Link There can be many elements that combine to create a great photo: attractive model, good lighting, good makeup artist and stylist, good props, good composition, good post-production/Photoshop skills, etc. Can a good photo be done without a MUA or stylist? Of course. If enough other elements are working for you. Can a good MUA or stylist enhance an already good photo? Again, of course. So I think it is silly to say that all the bad photos on this site are the result of shooting without a MUA or stylist. It is equally silly to say that a MUA or stylist is a waste of time. I'm with Joe. You get brownie points if you can tell which of the photos in my portfolio were done with a MUA and which were not. DigitalCMH: your first model looks like she is nearly wearing clown makeup. WAY too much! The second model is well done, the makeup looks natural and enhances the photo nicely. Dec 04 05 07:58 pm Link Scaramanga wrote: This should be in the photographers bible! Dec 04 05 08:01 pm Link FOR THIS REASON i learned the basics on makeup application myself...I now do a majority of the makeup for my shoots and even hair SOMETIMES you should see my makeup box and how full it is..... The last shoot I did was with a girl who had never been in front of the lens before but with the makeup and she did her hair beautifully I think the shots came out VERY nice...They are the first 2 in my port... Dee Dec 04 05 08:13 pm Link I don't want to argue the essentials w/ someone who believe's strongly, but I too challenge you to tell me which 1's in my port were done w/ MUA & which 1's w/o... Send me a private note & I'll tell you if you're right...  )... 1 thing... It's become a trend (here in So. CA) for girls to be wanne bee MUA's & models, so a lot of them can do good MU on their own, by the time they're 16 no less... I think if you have a good rapport w/ 1, & you can collaborate well w/ the model's looks to get the definitive image, then that's awesome. 1 thing that's nice is if they also become a 2nd eye for you (tuck in that tummy, hair out of place, etc., etc...) BTW: 1 time I was getting ready to go out to a shoot & ended up picking up a hat for $4. The model when I asked her what she thought about hats, said she "hated them". It ended up being the best $4 ever spent & she wanted to keep the hat for posterity... I think MUA's are valuable, but I do think that a photographer's creativity can be just as or more... Paul Dec 04 05 08:23 pm Link Thats what I mean but many of the photographers are here are men. There is a photographer who started as a MUA in Chicago named Ernest Collins: http://www.pressbook.com/homebook.asp?l … r_id=76659 His work is fantastic he truly knows make-up and hair. Most photographers rely on the model to pull a look together and we often suffer because of it. Dec 04 05 08:29 pm Link Im not a photographer but this forum has been very helpful. Im not even that experienced of a model since I do pageantry but Ive definately seen some pictures where the make up coloring was wrong, made the model look guady (when she wasn't suppose to), and some pictures where the make up made the model. Now that mm is my fav pastime for procrastination I think I have a better eye and hopefully that will make my shoots better. Many photogs and mua make alot of beautiful art despite their model not even being that active of a participant of the actual work ie "i sometimes say to myself oh any model could've done that and would've almost done the same." This was very helpful soooo thanks photog continue to make forums on how we can improve our selves/better prepare ourselves. I recently invested in good makeup and makeup books and the mac bible for makeup. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts...im def can step up my participation aspect of shoots i do in the future : ) Dec 04 05 08:44 pm Link There's a lot of nitpicking about whether a hair stylist, MUA, and stylist are essential, but that was not the point of the original post. The point was that good hair, makeup, and styling add to good photography. It does not matter who does the work; what matters is that the work gets done. I for one, know that I'm not qualified to do any hair and makeup, and my styling skills are remedial at best, so I rely on others for those talents. I'm no model either, so I rely on others for their modeling skills, too. Dec 04 05 08:48 pm Link MarkMarek wrote: Do you honestly think that people only employ the services of makeup artists because they are poor photographers? Dec 04 05 08:55 pm Link A knowledge of Make-up,Lighting,And the operation of a Camera will suffice!!.. Being a pro does not mean anything if you're an Idiot!! Have i ever met a pro that was an Idiot? If you want it done right ,Do it yourself............ (:------- Hj Dec 04 05 08:57 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Brian, Dec 04 05 09:02 pm Link MarkMarek wrote: Makeup, hair, and styling are elements of model photography, just like composition, lighting, pose, and expression. If they aren't all good, the photograph suffers. It's really that simple. Dec 04 05 09:05 pm Link MarkMarek wrote: I read this several times. I even read it out loud to myself to make sure I was not misunderstanding it. Dec 04 05 09:09 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Exactlly right. Most of the photographers here shoot women in fashion Dec 04 05 09:14 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Bless you sir, bless you. :-) That's exactly right: I never said you couldn't get a good shot without these things, I just said that more often than not MUA and styling are underrated aspects of achieving great photos. I also said that a lot of the photos on this board were clearly lacking in that regard (including some of mine). Dec 04 05 09:24 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: I said that by looking at pictures provided as a lead to see the importance of MUAs it seems to me that these pictures lack in many other fields. For the most part (at least from what I have seen) these are just some sort of a head shot pictures (or head and shoulders, or some other form of photograph without striking pose, setup, idea, etc). On the other hand I see striking photographs, bearing great picture ideas, cool setups, or awesome lighting, etc. where the overall feel of the photograph gives no emphasis on make up or hair. Hence my assumption that one can go without MUA and/or stylist. This made me further think that unless it is a picture of the make up itself, or a picture of MUAs work to show off his/her skills (or hair artist's for that matter) there is no need for one. BUT on the other hand, I'm a beginner photographer so I feel that if a more experienced photographer insists on the need for MUA, there must be a reason. I just don't know what it is. And so far there was no point made which would make me believe MUA and/or stylist are important in photography. Dec 04 05 09:25 pm Link can I just repeat what someone else said: It's not WHO does the work, it's that the work gets done. If someone knows how to apply their own make-up well and can style their hair in a fashion suited to the shoot, you don't NEED an MUA and a hair stylist. Dec 04 05 09:30 pm Link balletkatelyn wrote: Yeah, that's kinda obvious and clearly wasn't the point of my post. I think there's something to be said for division of labor, but no, it doesn't really matter who does it if one person can competently wear all those hats. Dec 04 05 09:36 pm Link Scaramanga wrote: Oops, I forgot to say it truly helps to have women that look like Dec 04 05 09:36 pm Link balletkatelyn wrote: I fully agree, though I also agree with the opposition. Skilled Make Up professional will by all means do a better job then you or me even if we are quite good at it. What I believe though, is that your photograph should be telling a story. Cause if you can achieve that, then it's not gonna matter if the make up was done by true make up professional (in which case it will look awesome) or by the model herself (in which case it will look merely good). However, if you're not capable of telling a story, then you better get a great MUA to help the picture. Or so it seems to me. I might be wrong. Dec 04 05 09:37 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Very true, and not to be underestimated, because women like that know they bring value with their look and can be very selective about who they shoot with. Dec 04 05 09:38 pm Link MarkMarek wrote: Its hard to understand someone when your point of arrival has not reached their point of departure. Dec 04 05 09:42 pm Link What I touched on in another post is that while attractive, many women aren't good as print models. It may be they have something about their face or figure that doesn't work well in photos. Its important to know when you approach clients for fashion or glamour work who to include and to exclude. Its better to show three great models then five or six not so good models. Everyone radiates a beauty of their own but its a certain look that will get you in the door and too often that pretty but maybe slightly over weight model you shot shouldn't be shown in your book when you are trying for pro work. Again I don't mean to insult any model but some models work better for photographers. If you have to pay them do so. Dec 04 05 09:49 pm Link (I removed the images from the server, and therefore this post.) Dec 04 05 09:52 pm Link The "secret" is the same as the secret for excellence in any field: 1) work your ass off 2) practice, practice, practice! 3) never let anyone see 99% of your work mjr. Dec 04 05 09:57 pm Link In essence what you're implying is that good models make good shots. However without lighting and compositional skills, all that hair styling and makeup would be for naught. I see far more problems that can be attributed to bad photographic execution. Dec 04 05 10:09 pm Link Sure a MUA/stylist is great to have and it's cool to just sit there and be pampered. But most of the time, I can create the same look myself. I actually started having one photographer do my make up and hair for me. He seems to really be enjoying that because it lets him use his imagination and he's able to get the make up that he had in mind. I've been doing a lot of images now that don't require any make up at all or very little make up. Which is very cool. Saves time. Dec 04 05 10:19 pm Link There's a great book about writing poetry by Richard Hugo called The Triggering Town. In one example, Hugo quotes a successful excerpt that reads: With the Stilli this defeated and the sea About this excerpt, Hugo comments extensively about how well crafted the words are and how important sounds of the words are to the success of the poem. He writes: The fact that "suicide" sounds like "cascade" is infinitely more important than what is being said. The same could be said about makeup, etc. It is infinitely more important than the content of the photo. It isn't of course, but if you think about it that way for the next twenty-five years you could be in pretty good shape. Dec 04 05 10:23 pm Link I think the REAL SECRET is having the Models actually show up for a shoot!  Dec 04 05 10:29 pm Link |
