KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
You should get an agent if your a no TFP model plain and simple.

Many of the models on here who say they are "PAO" can't get signed to land-based agencies

CrazyIsabelAurora wrote:

Many of the models on here who say they are "PAO" can't get signed to land-based agencies

Whats PAO?

Brent Mitchell wrote:

Whats PAO?

paid assignments only

Brent Mitchell wrote:
I'm just starting, eventually i wanna try going to an agency.  A model wont book big gigs going to a site like this, your right it is good just for networking.  I think over the summer once school is over i'll try the agency thing.

Brent sounds like you have a plan I hope it works out and sites like MM and omp help you achieve your goals.

CrazyIsabelAurora wrote:

Many of the models on here who say they are "PAO" can't get signed to land-based agencies

I notice most of the  PAO models only saleable items are nude pics of their bodies. which are extremely useless to land based agencies.

DeathbyNew-Wave wrote:
I would never sign with an agency. I dont like paying someone to find me work when I've never had a problem finding work on my own.Besides, I feel like being signed with an agency would just bring me jobs and photographers I dont want to work with.

please explain wouldn't you make more if your doing more photoshoots that pay more  ( even if the agent takes a cut) you'll still make more $$$ right. A Pepsi commercial would pay a great deal more than a photographer or a local clothing store right? It leads me to think model who say no to agencies only because they can't get an agency to rep them. It's kinda like me saying no to the 2006 lexxus right

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:

please explain wouldn't you make more if your doing more photoshoots that pay more  ( even if the agent takes a cut) you'll still make more $$$ right. A Pepsi commercial would pay a great deal more than a photographer or a local clothing store right

Well for instance I've had soooo many offers on here by photographers,but they do really shitty work or only photograph certain genres of photography so I wont work with them, not even if they pay me. Like it says in my profile, I shoot for quality,not quantity.Every modeling job I've gotten was by just being out somewhere or someone finding me on myspace that was local.I'm only interested in doing retro modeling because I actually dress as though it were the 40's on a daily basis. The whole fashion and runway and commercial stuff to me is boring and I dont like it so I dont sign with agencies already knowing thats the kind of work they'll bring me.

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Not true.  I have an agency and I love tfps!!

I think there are many models here with the same thoughts as you.

Love some of your new work, btw!

Sky Above wrote:

I think there are many models here with the same thoughts as you.

Love some of your new work, btw!

Thanks sexy lady  

I don't see why agency girls don't like TFPs....ridiculous.  Who doesn't want free pictures?!?!  ~

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Not true.  I have an agency and I love tfps!!

cool glad to see you still do, I feel this should be the norm. I was referring to the unsigned hype who have huge day/hourly rates. I just wonder why they're here on MM and OMP site if not to build a book or network. If I was a model I would rather be working with businesses with real cash to spend not photographers who are usually on small next to nothing budgets.

Diana Moffitt wrote:

Thanks sexy lady  

I don't see why agency girls don't like TFPs....ridiculous.  Who doesn't want free pictures?!?!  ~

Well, my agents never ever ever let me do tfp... they don't want crappy pix of thier girls floating around. (Not saying that all tfp is crappy obviously!!!)

RachelCWhittemore wrote:
Well, my agents never ever ever let me do tfp... they don't want crappy pix of thier girls floating around. (Not saying that all tfp is crappy obviously!!!)

then why are here?? ( not to be rude hun ) I am just looking for some answers that's all. If your agent are booking you jobs then MM and OMP serves no purpose. It's not for the networking so I guess MM is more like a myspace to some ppl

RachelCWhittemore wrote:

Well, my agents never ever ever let me do tfp... they don't want crappy pix of thier girls floating around. (Not saying that all tfp is crappy obviously!!!)

I don't do shoots with crappy photogs ~  I am very picky with my tfps!

Diana Moffitt wrote:

I don't do shoots with crappy photogs ~  I am very picky with my tfps!

lol, I'm not saying all tfp is crappy. (But, c'mon, lots of TFP offered IS bad... you know it, hehe)

All I'm saying is that my bookers would not let me shoot ANYTHING except what they booked me.

What I have found is that the pictures *I* loved, my booker hated and vice versa. Why? Because he knew what he wanted me to look like, to do... because of the people he was marketing me towards. He didn't WANT MAC type make-up shots in my book. He wanted edgy fashion shots in my book. I wasn't going to be seeing MAC, I was being sent to see zinc, arena & vogue.

He only wanted me seen the way he was marketing me... of course

God.. I had this wonderful photographer, he does amazing work - want to shoot me.

So, I asked my booker. He was like, "fine fine fine... since you REALLY like his work, have him call ***** (one of the girls at t he front desk) and schedule a meeting with me & *****. (another agent that worked with me when my agent was out of town)

The photographer really wanted to shoot, so he went in.

My agent basically laughed at him and said no way. (The photographer was, and is, very good. PUblished internationally, A list client, tpo agencies and models, etc.) But, not the right style.

I was pissed. The photographer was pissed.

But..... what is more important? Doing one shoot... no matter how good the photographer & team was... or my contract? Hmmm... lemme think



Maybe a year later I was with another agency. The same photographer called me, a little panicked... "I have an editorial shooting on ______ (whatever day it was) - the model cannot make it because _____ (sick I think?) Can you do it?"

Good magazine.
Great team.
Everything top-notch.

So, I told him he would have to call my agency.

They said no.



You have an agent because they have their finger on the pulse of the market.
They know what they are doing (well,hopefully! haha) and they know the clients that will like you.

Vogue is not going to respond to a Lands End tear.
MAC is not going to respond to an art nude.


So..... that was a long way to explain what I was trying to say... lol

Diana Moffitt wrote:

I don't do shoots with crappy photogs ~  I am very picky with my tfps!

That's obviously a lie!  I'm working on photos of you right now. 

Neighborlyfotog wrote:
While FTP shoots are supposed to be mutually beneficial for both the model and photographer, I have found them more of a time when the photographer and model can experiment with new lighting ideas, looks, camera angles and what ever strikes their fancy.  The reason is this.  There is NO pressure from an agent, agency or other third party.  Just two adults in the studio sandbox as it were, building on their own ideas.

D

NOT A TFP POSTING

RachelCWhittemore wrote:
All I'm saying is that my bookers would not let me shoot ANYTHING except what they booked me.

so why are you on MM then if your booker won't allow you to shoot with anyone here?

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:

so why are you on MM then if your booker won't allow you to shoot with anyone here?

'would not'

past tense hehe

He isn't my booker anymore, I left the agency.

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
You should get an agent if your a no TFP model plain and simple.

I think you're catagorizing things wrong.  Here's how I see things.

There is mainstream modeling that usually works through a modeling agency.  They do the type of work most often associated with selling a product or service (commerical, fashion, etc).  Ultimately, it's the company that offers the product or service that pays for the model (either with or without the involvement of an ad agency).

Then there is internet modeling which is what happens (by definition) on MM.  Internet models work in the world of glamour, pin-up, art, fetich, softcore, etc.  Their customers are usually photographers and photographers are usually the one's compensating the model in some form or other.  Sometimes it's cash and sometimes it's just copies of the images (prints or CDs).  Either way (TFP or paid), it's still internet modeling and it has nothing to do with agencies or the commercial/fashion/etc world.

There are agents for internet models but we don't speak of them...

In any case, I pay the internet models I use.  If I could get what I wanted for free, I would.  But it ain't in the cards.  What I want costs money.

-Dave

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:

CrazyIsabelAurora wrote:
Many of the models on here who say they are "PAO" can't get signed to land-based agencies

I notice most of the  PAO models only saleable items are nude pics of their bodies. which are extremely useless to land based agencies.

Yes, but very useful to glamour, fetish, art, and softcore photographers.   Glamour, fetish, and art models are easily identifiable by the big red "A" they wear.

Dave Krueger wrote:
Yes, but very useful to glamour, fetish, art, and softcore photographers.   Glamour, fetish, and art models are easily identifiable by the big red "A" they wear.

not entirely true dave I've seen girls who are fashion models who only do paid asignments.

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:

Dave Krueger wrote:
Yes, but very useful to glamour, fetish, art, and softcore photographers.   Glamour, fetish, and art models are easily identifiable by the big red "A" they wear.

not entirely true dave I've seen girls who are fashion models who only do paid asignments.

I would expect it to be very unusal for a fashion model to do TFP.  Where did I say otherwise?  Agency models work for pay only.  Internet models do TFP and paid.

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
I always felt site like model mayhem, OMP and Musecube were mainly for networking purposes. These sites are great for models and photographers to build their portfolios and skills. I mention to another photographer since the internet, models now charge for shoots as though they were signed to an agency. I would never book a net model for a actual paid job and I can't understand why someone else would also.
So with that said am I right to assume site like MM are for networking? If you don't do TFP you should not be on MM or any of the others right?  There are plenty of agencies so if they won't sign you the I can assume something is wrong like drug use weight trouble reliability etc....
Are there any honest reason why a model would not get an agent? I know they take a cut but more work equals more money right? Agent are here to find work for models photographers, actors etc..
You should get an agent if your a no TFP model plain and simple.

It's the prerogative of each individual on Model Mayhem to decide how they wish to use the site.  There ARE net models that are able to make a living WITHOUT an agency.  Furthermore, the blanket statement you made regarding models without agents as follows: "There are plenty of agencies so if they won't sign you the I can assume something is wrong like drug use weight trouble reliability etc" is totally false.  There are many factors influencing a models ability (or lack thereof) to be signed to an agency.  My question to you is why does it bother you so much that some models choose not to do TFP?  Live and let live...

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Not true.  I have an agency and I love tfps!!

Why don't you move to Michigan?  Why?  Why?

RachelCWhittemore wrote:

Well, my agents never ever ever let me do tfp... they don't want crappy pix of thier girls floating around. (Not saying that all tfp is crappy obviously!!!)

I have to disagree here. There are some very high quality photographers on here. Many on here as giving some of the well known photographers a run for their money. I've also seen some photographers on here who have photographed some well known models. Eve the diva etc..

What I see is that many who come on here have expectations that they want met, but when they aren't getting them, suddenly this isn't the place to get you on the right track. Sad statements.

This place is a goldmine. Networking, paid opportunities, BUT also being realisitic, not all models are going to get paid because we for the majority are in all in the same position. Trying to improve on what is already there. Some of these models need to act like they know what time it is.

There are also models on here who have worked with some very well known magazines and companies. Bottomline is, no matter what you get into, if you don't know how to apply it you'll never reach your goal.

So far I've been applying it in more than one area. I've helped MUA and models by building websites for them. People who I have met on here. The MUA that worked with, her work is damn good and she works with photographer Michael Vincent. A photographer who shoots alot of editorial. high fashion and celebrities photography.

This site is good for me because it is giving me the opporutnity to hookup with models to work on things that i haven't worked on or showed yet. It makes it easier for me vs trying to put adds out or blindly hoping that the models is ok or is going to show up. Saves time and money.

RachelCWhittemore wrote:

'would not'

past tense hehe

He isn't my booker anymore, I left the agency.

Confused a bit by what point you are trying to make with talk of the former booker.
What is your current status on doing unpaid shoots?   Tfp is a strange term.
What are the conditions that you and/or your agent will allow you to shoot?