lll wrote:
Lapis said it.  There is no answer to your question without more specifics "not new but not a star" is a huge grey area and need definition.  What is new and what is considered a star?

I think what you should pay is what you perceive is the value of this particular model can provide you.  It's not hard to figure out.  Let's say $3000/hour, you would certainly shake your head.  $10/hour you may feel a little cheap, but not as far off as $3000.  Narrow it down that way.  Figure out the upper and lower "hell no", then narrow and adjust for each girl.  I don't pay models (either clients pay for them, or they pay me to test), but that's a good point to start.

To set a pretty good upper boundary, commercial agency models (not the superstars) in my area cost about $150/hour with a 2-hour minimum plus usage for fashion/commercial work.  Other than a few, no other models on MM (especially the new ones) should charge anywhere close to those amount.  I like what Lapis quoted, I think it's very fair.

Mark Reese Photography wrote:
As I said to another person who asked this same question.. anywhere between $1 and$1,000 an hr. would be appropriate, I think.

~giggle~

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
It is an open question, but I thought mmembers could give a good idea prices for models on MM.   I would feel cheap paying $10.00 hr, but That is about what i can afford and At teh university models were happy to get $7.00 hr and maybe a print or two.   Thank you all for you answer.

Well, there's the solution - at a rate can you afford, are there some models who will say yes?  If so, you're done.  Don't feel cheap - if they didn't want to do it they wouldn't have said yes.

I think sometimes it's easy to forget that modeling can actually be pretty fun and that many models are working at the local burger joint for almost no money.   If they enjoy it and you're paying as much as they would have made flipping burgers, everybody wins.

I don't want to underestimate how much a really experienced model is worth - you can get a ton done in a short period of time with a really experienced model and obviously that's worth something.  But if you're happy with somebody with more enthusiasm then experience I don't think it's necessary to pay a ton for that.

San Francisco Nudes wrote:

Well, there's the solution - at a rate can you afford, are there some models who will say yes?  If so, you're done.  Don't feel cheap - if they didn't want to do it they wouldn't have said yes.

I think sometimes it's easy to forget that modeling can actually be pretty fun and that many models are working at the local burger joint for almost no money.   If they enjoy it and you're paying as much as they would have made flipping burgers, everybody wins.

I don't want to underestimate how much a really experienced model is worth - you can get a ton done in a short period of time with a really experienced model and obviously that's worth something.  But if you're happy with somebody with more enthusiasm then experience I don't think it's necessary to pay a ton for that.

  I like you!

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
Just wondering what  is a good pay rate for models that are not stars or are new to modeling.    Just curious.

Breakfast, Lunch, and/or dinner depending on the time.

Rich Meade wrote:
hmmm... Never paid a model...Thats not to say I wouldn't,

However....

I think if you have a good idea for a shoot, and can show that you aren't just a GWC, then you can find the perfect model that will benefit as much from the images as you will, and there will be no need for money to exchange hands.

Going along this line, maybe we shouldn't be asking how much a model should be paid, but instead, COMPENSATED.

If you're a hot shot photographer, say like a Bruce Talbot.  I bet almost every person on here would be willing to shoot with and not expect a dime.  I don't even know if he pays, but let's assume he doesn't.  But, I can promise you, they ARE being compensated.  Because of how good his photos are (at least to me anyhow) he's worth $$.  Let's say for some average Joe off the street, he'd charge them $1,500 for a session.  But he yanks some chick off the street and says, "hey, let me do a photo session with you and you'll get some pics."  Even though she's not getting cash, he's essentially GIVING her $1,500 just buy giving her photos he'd normally want $1,500.

When I approach people to shoot sometimes they'll ask me if I pay.  My response is, "I think I've reach a point with my skills that I don't need to pay anyone to shoot with me.  They are either paying me OR being compensated with a photo session that I currently put a $300 value on (yeah, I'm cheap, but I'm still just starting out).  So...yeah, I do pay.  I pay $300 that I take back so you can have photos.

I thinking I'm rambling now.

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
Just wondering what  is a good pay rate for models that are not stars or are new to modeling.    Just curious.

Turn that question around:

How much are you worth as a photographer?  Then trade your value.

San Francisco Nudes wrote:

Well, there's the solution - at a rate can you afford, are there some models who will say yes?  If so, you're done.  Don't feel cheap - if they didn't want to do it they wouldn't have said yes.

I think sometimes it's easy to forget that modeling can actually be pretty fun and that many models are working at the local burger joint for almost no money.   If they enjoy it and you're paying as much as they would have made flipping burgers, everybody wins.

I don't want to underestimate how much a really experienced model is worth - you can get a ton done in a short period of time with a really experienced model and obviously that's worth something.  But if you're happy with somebody with more enthusiasm then experience I don't think it's necessary to pay a ton for that.

Your comment about how much an experienced model is worth is very true!!

Lapis wrote:
Oh, can't answer that one. I did TFP nudes for the first year of my modeling, but I chose my photographers very carefully. Once I got a good book, I started charging. However, if you want to pay a new model, I think 30/hr for fashion/glamour and 50 an hour for nudes is reasonable, and if you are planning on working with them for more than 3 hours, you can negotiate for less, doing a 1/2 day rate or day rate.

I am a pretty well known model, and the minimum I charge is 75-125 an hour.

What wonderful advice Lapis.
I did TFP as well to start my book the first year.

Now I charge basically what Lapis does. Depending on weather it is topless glamour, art nudes, or glamour fetish.

I have been know to work for tearsheets too.

David Johnson wrote:
Sorry... But as a Professional Photographer who runs a Professional business, I do not think it is right for the Photographer to pay the model... The only time I believe it is appropriate is when that Photographer hass been hired by a client for a job and a model is needed for that job, so the Photographers charge to the client should include the pay for the model. In most cases, Photographers are paid by a client and the model is also paid by that same client. That is the way is has worked for me for the past 5 years. I also saw a recent interview with Nigel Barker from Americas Next Top Model.... He said that he has never hired a model in his life he never should have to. He said he is the artist, they are the subjects. He has the vision, they have the look. He buys all the tools of his trade, they get to buy clothes, or have clothes provided for them.

You're missing a point that sooooo many photographers continuously miss.  Sometimes the photographer IS the client.

DigitalCMH wrote:

You're missing a point that sooooo many photographers continuously miss.  Sometimes the photographer IS the client.

I am sorry, but it just isn't right. There are too many so called photographers out there that are paying models just so they can get them naked and get their own peep show without going to the strip club. I do not see how you can pay models and still pay for a studio and all the expenses that go along with it. 5 or 6 years ago it was unheard of for a model to ask a Photographer to be paid. Models knew they had to pay for quality images. I do believe it is okay to shot from time to time with select models own a TFCD basis, just to hone your talent, but that is it.....

David Johnson wrote:
I do not see how you can pay models and still pay for a studio and all the expenses that go along with it.

Stock?  Art?  Porn?

Sometimes legit photographers have legit reasons to pay models.  It's all in how one sets up one's business.

David Johnson wrote:
Sorry... But as a Professional Photographer who runs a Professional business, I do not think it is right for the Photographer to pay the model... The only time I believe it is appropriate is when that Photographer hass been hired by a client for a job and a model is needed for that job, so the Photographers charge to the client should include the pay for the model. In most cases, Photographers are paid by a client and the model is also paid by that same client. That is the way is has worked for me for the past 5 years. I also saw a recent interview with Nigel Barker from Americas Next Top Model.... He said that he has never hired a model in his life he never should have to. He said he is the artist, they are the subjects. He has the vision, they have the look. He buys all the tools of his trade, they get to buy clothes, or have clothes provided for them.

Thank you.

David Johnson wrote:

I am sorry, but it just isn't right. There are too many so called photographers out there that are paying models just so they can get them naked and get their own peep show without going to the strip club. I do not see how you can pay models and still pay for a studio and all the expenses that go along with it. 5 or 6 years ago it was unheard of for a model to ask a Photographer to be paid. Models knew they had to pay for quality images. I do believe it is okay to shot from time to time with select models own a TFCD basis, just to hone your talent, but that is it.....

I agree. I never pay models, in alot of cases they want to pay me for portfolio building. During a portrait session, there is no money except my own to pay with. If you don't like it, there are thousands of models who will do TFCD. I hate to sound harsh, because I believe that models should be paid for commercial work, magazine work etc, it would ruin photographers if we had to pay models constantly.

Class Act Photography wrote:
I think they should pay the photographer $100 and nachos.
(preferably with salsa)

... and be happy about it!

Service with a smile,
Kathy Jean

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
Just wondering what  is a good pay rate for models that are not stars or are new to modeling.    Just curious.

How about nothing?

If it's an equal trade, make it just that. A trade.

If not, then you have to answer:

1. what are the images for?
2. what type of release is it?
3. Is there a MUA that you're paying for or is she supposed to provide one?
4. How long will the shoot be?
5. What can she/he use the images for?
6. Where will the shoot be/are you paying for travel?

-D

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
It is an open question, but I thought mmembers could give a good idea prices for models on MM.   I would feel cheap paying $10.00 hr, but That is about what i can afford and At teh university models were happy to get $7.00 hr and maybe a print or two.   Thank you all for you answer.

Who wants to use University of Michigan girls? Bleh.

Try the other big ten schools (Sarah- you reading this?) lol

David Johnson wrote:
I am sorry, but it just isn't right. There are too many so called photographers out there that are paying models just so they can get them naked and get their own peep show without going to the strip club. I do not see how you can pay models and still pay for a studio and all the expenses that go along with it. 5 or 6 years ago it was unheard of for a model to ask a Photographer to be paid. Models knew they had to pay for quality images. I do believe it is okay to shot from time to time with select models own a TFCD basis, just to hone your talent, but that is it.....

I'm able to do it with some success. Of course, I get my studio at no charge through work. But the key is to not overpay. I think many men sometimes feel the need to impress with their wallet. And I think that sometimes carries over into this field. I, on the other hand pay what I feel the job is worth (Based on how much money I feel I can make from the photos... I'm a bit of an entreprenuer). I have never, will never (well, never say never) paid a model $100+ per hour. Especially when I continually find full-time models willing to work on my projects for $200-$300 for the whole day.

Daniela V wrote:
How about nothing?

If it's an equal trade, make it just that. A trade.

If not, then you have to answer:

1. what are the images for?
2. what type of release is it?
3. Is there a MUA that you're paying for or is she supposed to provide one?
4. How long will the shoot be?
5. What can she/he use the images for?
6. Where will the shoot be/are you paying for travel?

-D

And some of them are willing to pose for a plane ticket.

David Johnson wrote:

I am sorry, but it just isn't right. There are too many so called photographers out there that are paying models just so they can get them naked and get their own peep show without going to the strip club. I do not see how you can pay models and still pay for a studio and all the expenses that go along with it. 5 or 6 years ago it was unheard of for a model to ask a Photographer to be paid. Models knew they had to pay for quality images. I do believe it is okay to shot from time to time with select models own a TFCD basis, just to hone your talent, but that is it.....

You're still missing the point.

e.g.

Let's pretend I'm really good at taking photos and I have buyers that like to buy my photos.

Why would it be wrong for me to hire a model.  Pay her whatever we agree on.  Then sell turn around and sell those images?

John Jebbia wrote:

And some of them are willing to pose for a plane ticket.

Shhhhh!

Brat

DigitalCMH wrote:
You're still missing the point.

e.g.

Let's pretend I'm really good at taking photos and I have buyers that like to buy my photos.

Why would it be wrong for me to hire a model.  Pay her whatever we agree on.  Then sell turn around and sell those images?

What I've found is most people don't want pictures of strangers in their house. People are more interested in very extreme artsy photos, nudes, etc. of strangers. Almost no one is going to buy a regular portrait or headshot of a person unless they know the person. Even watching the hits on my photos on various websites, generally people are attracted to looking at obscured images of people, or abstract images, or images without people! Or in your case, people view more of the nude work you have in your MM port. The ones that show more skin. How many of those pictures have you sold compared to some of your other bikini shots (I'm betting neither for the average buyer)?

I'm not going to sell portraits that a model is going to want in her portfolio (unless it's really artsy).

PIC wrote:
$ Zero !!
Clients pay models and photographers.

If you don't have clients then do only TFP.

EL

Ditto that: case in point recently shot a cover up in Manhattan, model arrives an hour early, (not on the clock in my book) doesn't bring a rate card to sign and can't sign the release, needs the agency to approve it first. Do I as a photographer want those headaches?! No let the client deal with it.

As for testing with models, I think it's great for both parties (it's not your look, hun, but your ability to act, in other words the ability to create an emotional pose and practice makes perfect so yes you should work for free, unless there's a client with actual usage).

If your looking to improve your photographic portfolio - let's be honest the best place to find subjects is not with some hot little eighteen year olds but at the local senior citizen home.

0riginal Concept Photo wrote:
Just wondering what  is a good pay rate for models that are not stars or are new to modeling.    Just curious.

If they're nude, I pay. If it's fashion, glamour, yada yada yada...no pay, unless a client is picking up the tab, in which case, I still don't pay. They do. Models here charge on average, $100/hr for nude/artistic/creative/glam nude.