Carle Photo wrote:
In any case MM appears to be more for the male photographers......

One has to look no farther than the Contest of the Day, and the 18+ Contest of the Day (which should be renamed the Open Leg Winner Of The Day) to understand the primary make-up of active members here on MM.

And... that make-up is also what has driven many of the better models off of this site.

Carle Photo wrote:
Models learned a long time ago that posting in the model forum would just result in photographers who have never modeled, giving bad advice to models.

This was my main reason for not usually posting. Too many comments on female discharge equalling arousal, and I was done. I'm not into reading paragraphs of information from (usually male) photographers waxing eloquent on female anatomy and hygiene - especially when they're wrong and have a tendency to become belligerent when confronted about it.

And that doesn't even get to the "what is with these models and their rates" discussions that pop up endlessly.

Those two things alone should clear up any questions about why models left the public forums.

Liv Sage wrote:

This was my main reason for not usually posting. Too many comments on female discharge equalling arousal, and I was done. I'm not into reading paragraphs of information from (usually male) photographers waxing eloquent on female anatomy and hygiene - especially when they're wrong and have a tendency to become belligerent when confronted about it.

And that doesn't even get to the "what is with these models and their rates" discussions that pop up endlessly.

Those two things alone should clear up any questions about why models left the public forums.

No kidding Liv.  Major turn off for a lot of people.   

Unemployment being as low as it is might have something to do with missing members.

LONDON Photo Art wrote:
One has to look no farther than the Contest of the Day, and the 18+ Contest of the Day (which should be renamed the Open Leg Winner Of The Day) to understand the primary make-up of active members here on MM.

And... that make-up is also what has driven many of the better models off of this site.

That is a generalized and vague statement.  Why don't you enlighten us about what kind of people make up the active members here on MM, based on 30 or so entries into the +18 female contest or pic of the day contest?  For that matter, what constitutes an "active" member?  Furthermore, your pet peeve about the contests being dominated by open leg shots is not the case, though I would concur at one time it was more likely.  I looked at the first 10 on the winners page.  One might constitute open leg.  It depends on the definition of what makes a shot open leg, but the entire surface area of the genital is not visible in length or breadth.  Of the last 10 (up to Sept 17th),  four of the last 10 winners do not show the female genitals at all.  One of those is close, but still no cigar there.  In the others, well, shaved female genitals are in style, but I don't think that constitutes open leg because you can see a small anterior view of a portion of the genital area.

I would agree that the contests are unimaginative and not particularly spectacular, but I have seen far less skillful representations of T&A.

It seems to be more productive to use MM for what can be accomplished with the site, then these repetitive and inane posts that complain about what ails us, what used to be, what dinosaurs or sex perverts we are, and the premature announcement of our demise.

Liv Sage wrote:
about why models left the public forums.

Thanks for speaking out. It's needed in order for the community to become worthwhile for models *and* for the rest of us.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
But mostly photographers have the answers (?)....Ladies/gentlemen models where are you?

We call this "togsplaining"... ;-)

IMAGINERIES wrote:
When I post on "model colloquy" it is for their opinion or a question or whatever is related to their craft.
But mostly photographers have the answers (?)....Ladies/gentlemen models where are you?
In any case MM appears to be more for the male photographers......
I hope one day models will be more proactive in their field as other are in other (mostly females) are in many other areas.

We're here. We're just not bothered any more, since we keep getting corrected on talks about our own anatomy, experiences and opinions. Just look up some old threads and enjoy the dumpster fire.

Carle Photo wrote:
Models learned a long time ago that posting in the model forum would just result in photographers who have never modelled, giving bad advice to models.

100%.

If you haven't been on the forums long, you won't have seen the mountains of evidence to back this assertion up but essentially what Carle Photo highlighted is the reason so many models don't bother anymore. What's the point in them bothering to explain their perspective when they're only going to be verbally abused - that is, unless they're agreeing with everything the photographers (generally) think.

There's no incentive for them to get involved when that is the potential outcome. Risk vs. Reward. Not worth it.

That's not the case with all photographers, of course. Many photographers are reasonable people. But, as with most things in life, a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
To the models:
Would you find it acceptable to have a Model Colloquy that allowed non-models read-only access?

I honestly don't see the point in that. But it would be OK with me if that's what others wanted. 

The "Models Only" forum which is restricted to being seen by those registered on MM as models gets very little use, so having this section limited to being responded to by models only but read by everyone doesn't seem to be an improvement over the current "Model Colloquy" and I doubt it would make any difference in the number of models who posted replies or started topics here.

MatureModelMM wrote:
I honestly don't see the point in that. But it would be OK with me if that's what others wanted. 
.

1) Photographers might learn a thing or two from having to zip the lips and listen to the models converse uninterrupted.

2) In several threads about outing, I'd seen claims that outing is openly done in the models-only forum. It would be nice to know for sure that isn't happening.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
There are a handful of wise and intelligent female models that educate us in the open forums.

One can learn a lot more about an organization from listening to the rank-and-file, rather than getting all one's information from the press secretary.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
One can learn a lot more about an organization from listening to the rank-and-file, rather than getting all one's information from the press secretary.

Interesting perspective, but I am unsure which you would consider our model participants to be.

Since there are press secretaries that are less than candid and some are outright deceitful, your point would be valid.  However, I don't see those that do participate, as press secretaries.  Perhaps they are leaders.  Perhaps they are maestro level models.  The novice levels of our participating groups usually find that they are in over their heads when then offer advice to the sages.  As are some of the sages in the male dominated groups, when they offer advice that is ... head scratching.  Some members would attempt to bring chowders of cats together and herd them across the prairie.

In these forums, those models that are brave enough to stick their heads into the fray of men with lots of time on their hands, deserve the voice they have earned through years of experience. The models that school us on the perspective of the models are members of the trade.  They are hands on.  In the trenches and experienced.  Working the job and living the life.  They are not a spin doctor in a distant ivory tower, gas lighting us.

Orca Bay Images wrote:

1) Photographers might learn a thing or two from having to zip the lips and listen to the models converse uninterrupted.

2) In several threads about outing, I'd seen claims that outing is openly done in the models-only forum. It would be nice to know for sure that isn't happening.

If were I'm sure the mod over seeing the models only forum would take action, would they not?

G Reese wrote:
If were I'm sure the mod over seeing the models only forum would take action, would they not?

There's one way for everybody to be sure.

Carle Photo wrote:
If one was to start modeling now, I would not even recommend MM for networking or booking jobs. Local facebook groups and Instagram is where people are booking.

I am curious about this statement. The majority of Model Profiles I see on FB and IG often don't list a location, either State or City.

Many have modeling shots mixed in with personal/family/vacation images.

There is almost never a place where the model lists her Stats or the genres she is available to shoot.

I still find almost all my models on MM, or if I find them on FB or IG I might also find them on MM by searching their name. I have never booked a model from FB or IG. I need information to book, and this is the best place to find it.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
To the models:
Would you find it acceptable to have a Model Colloquy that allowed non-models read-only access?

I don't think that is in line with the secrecy behind the forum. I thought the models were concerned over their reputation or ability to get shoots because of voicing their opinions.
Jen
p.s. I don't agree with the separate forum but, it isn't mine, it is for people who are concerned over their reputation or emotional repercussions from their online discussion.

Jen B wrote:
I thought the models were concerned over their reputation or ability to get shoots because of voicing their opinions.

That's the first time I've heard that rationale.  The rationale I'd always heard was that models were tired of photographers being buttinskis into every thread intended specifically for models.

G Reese wrote:
If were I'm sure the mod over seeing the models only forum would take action, would they not?

Orca Bay Images wrote:
There's one way for everybody to be sure.

Or we can trust the integrity of the models that also use these forums, when they say that outing and personal attacks aren't allowed in the model's only forum.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Or we can trust the integrity of the models that also use these forums, when they say that outing and personal attacks aren't allowed in the model's only forum.

Because all models behave the same, just as all photographers do. All models are mature and handle adversity well. All play fair. All of 'em. Just like all photographers. Life is amazing that way.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
Because all models behave the same, just as all photographers do. All models are mature and handle adversity well. All play fair. All of 'em. Just like all photographers. Life is amazing that way.

The cynicism is noted.  I have worked with one of the models that is a regular contributor here.  I have had private conversations with at least three.  There is one that I have had harsh words with.  All of them, and many more, have never given me reason to think they are liars or not forthright.  There are things that I find hard to believe.  Citations in literature are helpful, but someone can't provide a citation to something that doesn't exist.  I don't need to monitor everything myself.  Much in life is too inconsequential to stress over anyway, and I suspect that anyone on MM that is going to get a major discussion going about theirself, is going to be reported to the mods before that.

The models aren't professional liars like people in some professions.  And I bet that anything they can't discuss in the MM female model's only forum, they can discuss on Facebook or in the women's bathroom.  So, what does the angst about monitoring the female model's only forum accomplish?

No, not all models act the same.  But the ones that participate here have been enduring and it ought to be a no brainer to look at their posts over a number of years and know that they have integrity and professionalism. If these women say that the MM female models only forum follows the same rules as the rest of us, that is good enough for me.  Which means, also, that the models that don't follow the rules on that forum, suffer the same fate as the people that don't follow the rules on these forums.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Or we can trust the integrity of the models that also use these forums, when they say that outing and personal attacks aren't allowed in the model's only forum.

I've read there and outing happens.

The mileage those get vary because the other models, (who aren't so busy defending anyone else against a photographer's reply,) actually replied like the photographers in pointing out we are only reading one side of the story...

edit to say: I did't visit there often and rarely do now but, each time I've visited, I've read new outing threads.