Images by SeanK Photo wrote:
to models that make the model feel the photographer is skeezy but the photographer feels is ok?

And I’m not talking about the obvious things not to say, I mean the things that are said that could be harmless to the photographer but makes the model want to run?

For instance, I know a photographer that says to models he hasn’t worked with in a while, “When is your pretty face going to be seen in my camera again?” or, “My camera misses your face!” 

My GF (who also models) and I were having this conversation the other day and it became quite enlightening. I say the photographer above saying what he says would make a model run! GF says it really depends. Photographer thinks it is harmless and nothing to worry about.

What do you think and what are some of the things that have been said to you that has made you cringe?

To the photographers who post asking for models to share stories that you are asking for makes me think that you are being skeezy and trying to sensationalize negativity and not being positively productive about it at all, just pure sensationalizing. Not helpful at all.

Figures Jen B wrote:

To the photographers who post asking for models to share stories that you are asking for makes me think that you are being skeezy and trying to sensationalize negativity and not being positively productive about it at all, just pure sensationalizing. Not helpful at all.

Well, I am sorry you feel that way but that isn't what I am trying to do at all. Thanks for your input!

Images by SeanK Photo wrote:
to models that make the model feel the photographer is skeezy but the photographer feels is ok?

And I’m not talking about the obvious things not to say, I mean the things that are said that could be harmless to the photographer but makes the model want to run?

For instance, I know a photographer that says to models he hasn’t worked with in a while, “When is your pretty face going to be seen in my camera again?” or, “My camera misses your face!” 

My GF (who also models) and I were having this conversation the other day and it became quite enlightening. I say the photographer above saying what he says would make a model run! GF says it really depends. Photographer thinks it is harmless and nothing to worry about.

What do you think and what are some of the things that have been said to you that has made you cringe?

I think your question is valid. I feel like some of these things photographers say without really thinking through how they will be received are the reason why models flake or cancel last minute on them.

I've had photographers be super polite in pre-shoot communication and then when phone numbers are exchanged a few days before the shoot everything goes downhill. If you text a model late at night or say things like "I'm really looking forward to getting you naked in front of my camera tomorrow" or "I'm so excited to shoot with you.... I hope I can control myself wink wink," you risk the model bailing or just starting out the shoot on the wrong foot.

Also, any personal questions like "are you married? do you have a boyfriend?" "what does your (boyfriend/husband/SO think about your modeling?" are super off-putting, especially before ever meeting the person.

I don't think one can list all the things that could be taken wrong. I think photographers should try to put themselves in the model's position and really think through what they say. Many things seem harmless until a model hears them from someone who then acts inappropriately. Then she will be on-guard every time someone new says similar things. For example, I learned through trial and error that a photographer who starts a pre-shoot conversation with "what are your limits?" or "are you open-minded?" was not someone I wanted to work with.

Angel House Portraits wrote:
Its valid alright. Its the reason models bring in an escort or book through a so-called agent. Some photographers think its a date when in reality its just business.

Well in The world according to Garp, (we're all) sexual suspects!

Figures Jen B wrote:

To the photographers who post asking for models to share stories that you are asking for makes me think that you are being skeezy and trying to sensationalize negativity and not being positively productive about it at all, just pure sensationalizing. Not helpful at all.

Yup
Ditto
Liked
Etc

Figures Jen B wrote:
To the photographers who post asking for models to share stories that you are asking for makes me think that you are being skeezy and trying to sensationalize negativity and not being positively productive about it at all, just pure sensationalizing. Not helpful at all.

I think there must be some things that photographers can say or terminology they may use that they consider as being acceptable without realizing their language/slang/speak is unacceptable and out-of-place with their subjects.

I'm in an industry that was once limited to only males. Rightly or wrongly there were inappropriate names used for some of our tools and equipment. Today, we work/serve alongside our female counterparts and we are, and need to be, more careful/considerate with the terminology and language we use.   

So I would be interested in hearing/learning what male/female models have to say about the things they hear from photographers that makes them feel uncomfortable.

Camera Buff wrote:
I think there must be some things that photographers can say or terminology they may use that they consider as being acceptable without realizing their language/slang/speak is unacceptable and out-of-place with their subjects.

I'm in an industry that was once limited to only males. Rightly or wrongly there were inappropriate names used for some of our tools and equipment. Today, we work/serve alongside our female counterparts and we are, and need to be, more careful/considerate with the terminology and language we use.   

So I would be interested in hearing/learning what male/female models have to say about the things they hear from photographers that makes them feel uncomfortable.

One thing you could do is ask your non model female friends if they find any offense to things they hear from you, as a man in general, that they find skeezy. You know, people who know you in real life. If you feel that having lived in a male centric world has turned you into a skeez without knowing it, you could try that.

Otherwise, if any man is concerned over his behavior I highly and strongly recommend seeing a therapist or counselor so you can work it to in depth to get a gauge on your own behavior and appropriateness. You know, in a therapeutic and appropriate setting that will work instead of sensationalizing misbehaviors in a model-photographer context.

Gosh, what do you think female photographers do? People are people. Period. Also, if models feel that they are having trouble with a skeez photographer then no amount of venting on a forum is going to turn the skeez into a good person. All context of shooting or working with the skeez just has to stop. The skeez will only likely change through professional intervention of either self choice and hard work or jail. Even then it may not work so, walking away from a skeez, when the skeez reveal the skeezyness must be the only option. edit to add: if models and other photographers feel that they are here to help change behaviors of peers then maybe you are in the wrong business.
Jen

Jen B wrote:
One thing you could do is ask your non model female friends if they find any offense to things they hear from you, as a man in general, that they find skeezy. You know, people who know you in real life. If you feel that having lived in a male centric world has turned you into a skeez without knowing it, you could try that.

Otherwise, if any man is concerned over his behavior I highly and strongly recommend seeing a therapist or counselor so you can work it to in depth to get a gauge on your own behavior and appropriateness. You know, in a therapeutic and appropriate setting that will work instead of sensationalizing misbehaviors in a model-photographer context.

Gosh, what do you think female photographers do? People are people. Period. Also, if models feel that they are having trouble with a skeez photographer then no amount of venting on a forum is going to turn the skeez into a good person. All context of shooting or working with the skeez just has to stop. The skeez will only likely change through professional intervention of either self choice and hard work or jail. Even then it may not work so, walking away from a skeez, when the skeez reveal the skeezyness must be the only option. edit to add: if models and other photographers feel that they are here to help change behaviors of peers then maybe you are in the wrong business.
Jen

Calm down!

That's your opinion. I respect your having and expressing your opinion. Now try doing likewise for others.

Focuspuller wrote:
who needs instruction on what is inappropriate to say to a model

Every person is diffrent so there are no hard rules what can be said or not.

Photoshoots are not different from normal life, one needs to sense what can be said and sometimes one gets it wrong.

Focuspuller wrote:
It's really this simple; Any photographer of models who needs instruction on what is inappropriate to say to a model, should not be photographing models. If you are that immature and clueless, stick to bowls of fruit.

Wow! I am shocked at some if the responses here. It has nothing to do with trying to, “ sensationalize negativity” or not being mature enough to know how to talk to models. If you look at my profile, you can see I am nothing short of professional and respectful.

I was gearing this question more towards things that one might find offensive and the other one doesn’t. The purpose was to maybe give a photographer an idea that something they say, that they think is harmless, could be offensive to someone else.

Maybe I didn’t word it correctly when I first wrote the question and thus the misunderstanding. I’m not here trying to glorify or support bad behavior by a photographer. I was merely looking to expand on my previous conversation with my model GF and maybe learn something about myself along the way.

For those who are offended by me asking, or thinking that my intention was less then then honorable, I apologize for not wording myself correctly.

Thank for everyone’s input!

Garry k wrote:
Jen B seems pretty calm to me

She is just speaking some hard truths

Granted Gary k, Jen B may well be calm, she is certainly very passionate and cuttingly articulate. However, I found her over use of the word 'you’ in her reply as being confronting and personal.

I am not asking models to vent on photographers, perhaps that’s how Jen B and some others here may see the path that this OP’s thread was, or could be going down, but I would hope not.

When it comes to photographing people, there are rules that are a common courtesy. As well as others that are simply really good ideas. ( e.g. don’t ignore professional boundaries, etc.)

I recognise being a model is tough, in addition to everything else they have to deal with, a skeezy photographer would be unbearable. I can only imagine some of the horrible things that some photographers can and do say that must make a model feel uncomfortable and their job especially difficult.

That said, I am an amateur photographer who is endeavouring to receive some instruction from models about what they dislike (or hate) about how photographers communicate. This is not to sensaionalize negativity, it’s so I can improve my own skills and avoid inadvertently saying/doing things that will make models feel I am being skeezy.

Instead, I find people here who are quick to judge me and return replies that come across as personal attacks. Replies that question my motives, character and maturity.  Replies that suggest that I am clueless and should not be photographing models.

If I am clueless, then perhaps it’s because of this type of forum member. Those who feel they can belittle me by making their replies personal, who question or doubt my motives and sincerity.

It’s true that I won’t always share their point of view or have their level wisdom and experience in some matters. But I have every right ask models to respond to this OP’s thread and they have every right to respond without the fear of being denigrated, labeled, and ostracized for their opinions.

Images by SeanK Photo wrote:

Wow! I am shocked at some if the responses here. It has nothing to do with trying to, “ sensationalize negativity” or not being mature enough to know how to talk to models. If you look at my profile, you can see I am nothing short of professional and respectful.

I was gearing this question more towards things that one might find offensive and the other one doesn’t. The purpose was to maybe give a photographer an idea that something they say, that they think is harmless, could be offensive to someone else.

Maybe I didn’t word it correctly when I first wrote the question and thus the misunderstanding. I’m not here trying to glorify or support bad behavior by a photographer. I was merely looking to expand on my previous conversation with my model GF and maybe learn something about myself along the way.

For those who are offended by me asking, or thinking that my intention was less then then honorable, I apologize for not wording myself correctly.

Thank for everyone’s input!

Understood. Should photographers be aware of what they say to a model? Of course., but is it really that hard to figure out? All I am saying.

Focuspuller wrote:
It's really this simple; Any photographer of models who needs instruction on what is inappropriate to say to a model, should not be photographing models. If you are that immature and clueless, stick to bowls of fruit.

No comment, you're entitled to your opinion.

Images by SeanK Photo wrote:
Wow! I am shocked at some if the responses here. It has nothing to do with trying to, “ sensationalize negativity” or not being mature enough to know how to talk to models. If you look at my profile, you can see I am nothing short of professional and respectful.

I was gearing this question more towards things that one might find offensive and the other one doesn’t. The purpose was to maybe give a photographer an idea that something they say, that they think is harmless, could be offensive to someone else.

Maybe I didn’t word it correctly when I first wrote the question and thus the misunderstanding. I’m not here trying to glorify or support bad behavior by a photographer. I was merely looking to expand on my previous conversation with my model GF and maybe learn something about myself along the way.

For those who are offended by me asking, or thinking that my intention was less then then honorable, I apologize for not wording myself correctly.

Thank for everyone’s input!

Well said! I understood the intention of your thread was honorable, so IMO there was no need for you to apologise. However, I am relatively new to the forums and some of the other members here may have seen this, or similar topics in the past that have gone down a rabbit hole and did end up as being inappropriate and negative.  Who knows?

Camera Buff wrote:
Granted Gary k, Jen B may well be calm, she is certainly very passionate and cuttingly articulate. However, I found her over use of the word 'you’ in her reply as being confronting and personal.

I am not asking models to vent on photographers, perhaps that’s how Jen B and some others here may see the path that this OP’s thread was, or could be going down, but I would hope not.

When it comes to photographing people, there are rules that are a common courtesy. As well as others that are simply really good ideas. ( e.g. don’t ignore professional boundaries, etc.)

I recognise being a model is tough, in addition to everything else they have to deal with, a skeezy photographer would be unbearable. I can only imagine some of the horrible things that some photographers can and do say that must make a model feel uncomfortable and their job especially difficult.

That said, I am an amateur photographer who is endeavouring to receive some instruction from models about what they dislike (or hate) about how photographers communicate. This is not to sensaionalize negativity, it’s so I can improve my own skills and avoid inadvertently saying/doing things that will make models feel I am being skeezy.

Instead, I find people here who are quick to judge me and return replies that come across as personal attacks. Replies that question my motives, character and maturity.  Replies that suggest that I am clueless and should not be photographing models.

If I am clueless, then perhaps it’s because of this type of forum member. Those who feel they can belittle me by making their replies personal, who question or doubt my motives and sincerity.

It’s true that I won’t always share their point of view or have their lehvel wisdom and experience in some matters. But I have every right ask models to respond to this OP’s thread and they have every right to respond without the fear of being denigrated, labeled, and ostracized for their opinions.

Why would doing this to someone offend them?

2 Things in Response

Jen B is a Ray of Sunshine compared to many MM forum Members of the Past

Secondly Maybe if a Photographer is unsure whether he or she is being respectful enough to a Model during a Photoshoot - one thing they could do is ask for feedback afterwards

After the Virus has passed of course

Camera Buff wrote:

Calm down!

That's your opinion. I respect your having and expressing your opinion. Now try doing likewise for others.

Hello,
How would you like me to express my level of calm to you in a way that you can perceive my own calm nature?
Jen

Camera Buff wrote:

Granted Gary k, Jen B may well be calm, she is certainly very passionate and cuttingly articulate. However, I found her over use of the word 'you’ in her reply as being confronting and personal.

I am not asking models to vent on photographers, perhaps that’s how Jen B and some others here may see the path that this OP’s thread was, or could be going down, but I would hope not.

When it comes to photographing people, there are rules that are a common courtesy. As well as others that are simply really good ideas. ( e.g. don’t ignore professional boundaries, etc.)

I recognise being a model is tough, in addition to everything else they have to deal with, a skeezy photographer would be unbearable. I can only imagine some of the horrible things that some photographers can and do say that must make a model feel uncomfortable and their job especially difficult.

That said, I am an amateur photographer who is endeavouring to receive some instruction from models about what they dislike (or hate) about how photographers communicate. This is not to sensaionalize negativity, it’s so I can improve my own skills and avoid inadvertently saying/doing things that will make models feel I am being skeezy.

Instead, I find people here who are quick to judge me and return replies that come across as personal attacks. Replies that question my motives, character and maturity.  Replies that suggest that I am clueless and should not be photographing models.

If I am clueless, then perhaps it’s because of this type of forum member. Those who feel they can belittle me by making their replies personal, who question or doubt my motives and sincerity.

It’s true that I won’t always share their point of view or have their level wisdom and experience in some matters. But I have every right ask models to respond to this OP’s thread and they have every right to respond without the fear of being denigrated, labeled, and ostracized for their opinions.

That was hugely complimentary of you to say I was articulate, really very kind and I legit appreciate your forgiveness of my own typos and grammar errors. That really makes me feel like you got my gist amongst my over-wordiness and usual passive verb subject usage, I appreciate it. As for my use of "you" it could just be my age, and again, my own lacking in communication.

I do appreciate your reply a lot and your tolerance of my perspective on this. Thank you. However I am not a belittler, (then again, many people will read from their own insecurities, myself included.)
Jen

Images by SeanK Photo wrote:
Wow! I am shocked at some if the responses here. It has nothing to do with trying to, “ sensationalize negativity” or not being mature enough to know how to talk to models. If you look at my profile, you can see I am nothing short of professional and respectful.

I was gearing this question more towards things that one might find offensive and the other one doesn’t. The purpose was to maybe give a photographer an idea that something they say, that they think is harmless, could be offensive to someone else.

Maybe I didn’t word it correctly when I first wrote the question and thus the misunderstanding. I’m not here trying to glorify or support bad behavior by a photographer. I was merely looking to expand on my previous conversation with my model GF and maybe learn something about myself along the way.

For those who are offended by me asking, or thinking that my intention was less then then honorable, I apologize for not wording myself correctly.

Thank for everyone’s input!

Not necessarily that your intent was overtly less than honorable but, more likely, (as is evidenced by a few years here and seeing forums come like this, ) you just got swept up in some juicy gossip chit chat on a personal conversation about some gossip and negativity about some photographers and liked it a lot because it made you feel like an insider and not one of 'those' skeezes.

Sheesh, I am oddball Phoebe outsider and I am very comfortable with it. I see things a little differently and do call it out, generally not judging at all because we are all human, well, judging but not necessarily holding it against anyone, generally.

If you want to keep it going on a forum what could you predict it would go if people jumped in and shared more juicy gossip about negativity? What would you prefer a model share with you? Do you want us to share 'skeez' then it doesn't really seem like a productive conversation but more like a "dear hustler" convo. At least that was the direction my mind could see it going.

However, in sincerity, if someone is really curious if they have become male-centric in their thinking to the point they could offend models that they want to shoot with then I do recommend professional and therapeutic conversations to suss that out, not a forum.
Best,
Jen
p.s. edit to add, thank you everyone for the conversation and to the models that answered the question, I really thank you for your direct answers on track with the original post, fingers crossed we all stay safe and healthy through this virus pandemic

Garry k wrote:
I wonder if there are support groups for photographers who struggle with trying to be respectful and sensitive to Models

I guess though - during these times they would be virtual support groups

I don't know how to reply to this snide comment nicely - so I won't.

Jen B wrote:
p.s. edit to add, thank you everyone for the conversation and to the models that answered the question, I really thank you for your direct answers on track with the original post, fingers crossed we all stay safe and healthy through this virus pandemic

EDIT:
It’s kind of you to thank all those models who, regardless of your strongly expressed opinion, still went ahead and responded in a positive and direct way to the OP’s question.

That being said, not everyone needs another member's approval for choosing to enter into a conversation or thanks for the way in which they express their opinion.

Remember, everyone brings happiness to a conversation. Some when they enter, some when they leave.

So it’s goodbye and every happiness to you.

Camera Buff wrote:

I don't know how to reply to this snide comment nicely - so I won't.

+1

Camera Buff wrote:

EDIT:
It’s kind of you to thank all those models who, regardless of your strongly expressed opinion, still went ahead and responded in a positive and direct way to the OP’s question.

That being said, not everyone needs another member's approval for choosing to enter into a conversation or thanks for the way in which they express their opinion.

Remember, everyone brings happiness to a conversation. Some when they enter, some when they leave.

So it’s goodbye and every happiness to you.

Oh,
Well thank you for your snide goodbye.

MoRina wrote:
Sadly, I can only laugh at the irony of a photographer posting a genuine question about saying things unintentionally may offend a model and then getting a response from someone who was triggered by the question itself.

Interesting to see that the proposed solution is either therapy or jail, and any peers who weren't offended and offered help are in the wrong business.  After 12 years of standing in front of a camera to make my living, I have to say my bank account disagrees with the latter.

Hahaha,

Well, I've been dismissed. Triggered, nah. Enjoy my having been dismissed from the convo. Talk smack away. These very common threads asking for this generally have only turned into a smackdown about nasty photographers. I thought that was one of the reasons we have the secret locked down Models only forum.

Anyhow, he was asking about skeez photographers, (his words.)

TLVPhoto wrote:
Just my two cents... why tell photographers what not to say? If a person, no matter what they do, does not know the difference between what is and is not appropriate to say to a model why teach them? This is one way a model can rule out the creeps from the professionals.

You are aware you will deemed a "creep" by certain models because you shoot nudes ?

Figures Jen B wrote:
Hahaha,

Well, I've been dismissed. Triggered, nah. Enjoy my having been dismissed from the convo. Talk smack away. These very common threads asking for this generally have only turned into a smackdown about nasty photographers. I thought that was one of the reasons we have the secret locked down Models only forum.

Anyhow, he was asking about skeez photographers, (his words.)

Jen B, when I said goodbye and every happiness to you, I was announcing my departure from this conversation. I was not dismissing you from the convo.

This shows how easy it can be to unwittingly say something to someone with the best of intentions, but it ends up being taken the wrong way.

Camera Buff wrote:

Jen B, when I said goodbye and every happiness to you, I was announcing my departure from this conversation. I was not dismissing you from the convo.

This shows how easy it can be to unwittingly say something to someone with the best of intentions, but it ends up being taken the wrong way.

R You in this discussion or Out ?

Garry k wrote:
R You in this discussion or Out ?

When I am trying to clear up point or explain a remark that I made to somebody else, it can be beyond annoying to read a question like this.

Do you think that it is not important that I continue talking and try to explain a remark that implies I have dismissed a member from participating in another OP’s thread?

To clear up my comment for your benefit.

I was saying goodbye to Jen B (i.e. our conversations) and not necessarily to the thread itself. I have stated clearly that I believe the OP’s question was an honourable and valid one, and that I would like to hear more from the people to whom the question is addressed (i.e. models).

Let's be quiet now to allow everybody that opportunity.

Goodbye and every happiness to you Garry k.

TLVPhoto wrote:
Just my two cents... why tell photographers what not to say? If a person, no matter what they do, does not know the difference between what is and is not appropriate to say to a model why teach them? This is one way a model can rule out the creeps from the professionals.

I've been a model for over 15 years, There is NO correlation between "professional" & creep.
The WORST shoots I have been on were with professional photographers, just because you get a business license and a studio, does NOT mean you are exempt from being a creep.