Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
My question is directed to models who accept Time-For-Print (TFP) as compensation.
Background info:
TFP is accepted by some (not all) models as a form of compensation in return for their time spent modelling for photographers.
In the days of film, compensation was usually made in high quality 8"x10" and/or 11"x14" colour and/or black and white prints.
When digital cameras first started to appear, you had to really think about image resolution and what size print these early cameras were capable of producing. (A 6-megapixel camera was enough resolution to create a 4”x5” print, anything larger and the lack of quality would start to become noticeable.)
Fast forward to todays digital cameras and most now have a resolution greater than what's needed to print professional quality 8”x10” (Min. 5 megapixels) and 11”x 4” (Min. 6 megapixels) enlargements.
My Question:
By todays camera standards ... before agreeing to model for TFP work, do you have a minimum megapixel image size that you consider is appropriate as compensation?
Photographer
SayCheeZ!
Posts: 20623
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Camera Buff wrote:
My Question:
By todays camera standards ... before agreeing to model for TFP work, do you have a minimum megapixel image size that you consider is appropriate as compensation? I hate to be another photographer answering questions that were for a model but I sometimes see models that require the RAW files, which is unacceptable to most photographers for many valid reasons.
Another type of request often seen (by prospective clients in general including some models) is a requirement that the camera is at least X amount of pixels and 300dpi even though the photo(s) will only be displayed on a web page.
I'm pretty sure they make these requests because they've heard other people say "that's what you should do" and for no other reason.
Photographer
Red Sky Photography
Posts: 3898
Germantown, Maryland, US
When I first started shooting models, most of them wanted prints in a 9 X 12 size for their books.
When they started asking for digital images, I always sent both the full resolution file and one reduced for web use.
I don't see any reason why you wouldn't send them the full resolution size. I don't generally send web size any more as that is not requested.
I have never had a model ask what camera I shoot with or for a specific size/resolution file.
For a TF shoot, I don't have a problem sending RAW format files but there are few who request those, the ones that do are better re-touchers than I am.
For the OP...Is this a question you are getting from models?
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11732
Olney, Maryland, US
Camera Buff wrote:
My Question:
By todays camera standards ... before agreeing to model for TFP work, do you have a minimum megapixel image size that you consider is appropriate as compensation? Red Sky Photography wrote:
For the OP...Is this a question you are getting from models? Communication is so important. Don't ask us, ask the specific model.
Model
Rachel Jay
Posts: 20441
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Mark Salo wrote:
Communication is so important. Don't ask us, ask the specific model. Yes. This.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Red Sky Photography wrote:
For the OP ... Is this a question you are getting from models? No. This is a question I am addressing to experienced models who'll sometimes accept TFP in lieu of their monetary rate.
Where I'm located, I shoot with photogenic locals. There are no 'real life' or 'specific' models for me to ask.
It's not a trick question. There are any number of threads, started by models and photographers, that discuss monetary pay rates.
So if a professional model who does both PAO and TFP shoots quotes a $100 (+/-) an hour cash rate. How do they go about quoting on their hourly TFP rate?
Photographer
PHP-Photography
Posts: 1390
Vaasa, Ostrobothnia, Finland
Camera Buff wrote:
By todays camera standards ... before agreeing to model for TFP work, do you have a minimum megapixel image size that you consider is appropriate as compensation? I guess that would depend where the model will use the images.
MM "Photos wider than 1000px will automatically be resized, which will also strip EXIF and color space info."
Instagram uses 1080 x 1350 pix.
OnlyFans has max. 6000 x 6000 pix.
So anything between those.
Photographer
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 6597
Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US
One out of 5 wasn't bad, good job!
Photographer
PHP-Photography
Posts: 1390
Vaasa, Ostrobothnia, Finland
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
One out of 5 wasn't bad, good job! Models do not post.
Photographer
Znude!
Posts: 3320
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US
PHP-Photography wrote:
Models do not post. Now that we've run off all the models I vote we change the name of this thing to Photographer Mayhem.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
PHP-Photography wrote:
I guess that would depend where the model will use the images.
MM "Photos wider than 1000px will automatically be resized, which will also strip EXIF and color space info."
Instagram uses 1080 x 1350 pix.
OnlyFans has max. 6000 x 6000 pix.
So anything between those. Please let me clarify. My question isn't about resizing images for posting to web-based platforms. It's about what models may consider as fair compensation in image size (MP) for Time-For-Print work.
To hopefully avoid any debate over quantity, file format type and usage rights etc., I limited my question to simply asking ... what by todays standard of digital camera (e.g. 16MP) is the minimum image file size that a model might expect in return for a TFP collaboration?
Photographer
Angel House Portraits
Posts: 323
Orlando, Florida, US
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
One out of 5 wasn't bad, good job! Hey everybody has their feminine side.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Angel House Portraits wrote:
Hey everybody has their feminine side. Be that as it may, my question is directed at models and it is not gender specific.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
PHP-Photography wrote:
I guess that would depend where the model will use the images.
MM "Photos wider than 1000px will automatically be resized, which will also strip EXIF and color space info."
So anything between those. Let's say a model agrees to waive their cash rate ($100hr +/-) to do a one hour TFP collaboration
The photographer uses a 16MP camera and shoots in RAW. This means they’ll have complete control over their RAW images and can change almost everything (except lighting) like white balance, contrast, sharpness, colour saturation, etc. They can then convert their images to either JPEG or TIFF for other softwares to read them and could print at 16″ x 12″ with no problem.
So regardless of intended use for an image, be it on the web or producing prints, why limit the image size and/or file format a model receives as compensation.
I appreciate the point SayCheez! alludes to in regard to issues with providing RAW files. So what about converting the RAW file to TIFF (rather than a JPEG file). Unlike JPEG, the TIFF file is an uncompressed, lossless format that can be re-saved without losing image quality.
The parameters and options for editing TIFFs are fixed and mostly limited to adjusting levels and curves etc.. TIFF is also an ideal format to quickly print high quality images.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Red Sky Photography wrote:
I have never had a model ask what camera I shoot with or for a specific size/resolution file.
For a TF shoot, I don't have a problem sending RAW format files but there are few who request those, the ones that do are better re-touchers than I am. As I've said, I have never worked with a 'real' model, and I've never had a photogenic local ask me this question.
The only person to ask what size MP camera I shoot with was an Art Director for a local Ad Agency. Back then, in the early days of digital cameras, he was looking for a specific size/resolution file for a series of poster prints.
I recall taking my first digital camera (a Nikon Coolpix 990) as backup to my film cameras to shoot some candid shots for a Holiday Resort Brochure. https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/46611569
After seeing me with my 3MP digital camera, the Resort’s Manager was so concerned/upset he promptly went and called my Ad Agency to complain.
As soon as I could afford it, I upgraded to a 4MP Olympus E-10 and soon after to a 5MP Olympus E-20.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
PHP-Photography wrote:
Models do not post. But models do read!
Those models who do try to participate often have their comments/opinions taken out of context and/or the respondents put their own spin on what the model has said, or attempted to say.
Whether it's intentional behaviour or not, I can't safely say, but it possibly has a bit to do with why models are reticent about participating in the forums.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
My thanks to those who have participated in this thread to date.
However, I lack enthusiasm, motivation and the time to continue participating in the MM forums.
I have decided to take a time-out.
Cheers!
Photographer
Romie Miller
Posts: 3
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
Image type and quality varies according to need. As a rule for TFP shoots, I provide all the best images in srgb 8-bit.jpg form sized to 5 x 7" in Photoshop medium quality (7) settting for Internet use. If the model is going to print a portfolio I make them Adobe rgb 16-bit files sized to 11 x 17" and Photoshop maximum quality .jpg. That's usually about 10 mb or so Should the model want photo prints, (paid for) I make them from 16-bit .tif files at Photoshop maximum quality sized to whatever size they want. I shoot only full frame raw files and work from there. I hope this helps.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Romie Miller wrote:
Image type and quality varies according to need. As a rule for TFP shoots, I provide all the best images in srgb 8-bit.jpg form sized to 5 x 7" in Photoshop medium quality (7) settting for Internet use. If the model is going to print a portfolio I make them Adobe rgb 16-bit files sized to 11 x 17" and Photoshop maximum quality .jpg. That's usually about 10 mb or so Should the model want photo prints, (paid for) I make them from 16-bit .tif files at Photoshop maximum quality sized to whatever size they want. I shoot only full frame raw files and work from there. I hope this helps. Thank you Romie.
Model
Shura
Posts: 1112
Jefferson City, Missouri, US
If I shoot with someone TFP basis, I would expect similar size/quality as what the photographer would do for paid shoot, with maybe slightly less retouching and maybe fewer photos. The model's time is valuable too and it was an agreement made. But I have been starting to do photography myself too and would expect the same from myself as a photographer. Just because the model did not pay me, doesn't mean she doesn't get quality. Plus, if she posts photos stating I was the photographer, I want them to actually be of good quality. I would never demand raw files. I would offer to do editing at times, but I am better at editing than some of the people I've shot with and have better software, and my mentor can do some neat things too. For that it would be better to have raw file, but I would never demand it. I will not print though and will not demand prints. Digital only.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Shura wrote:
If I shoot with someone TFP basis, I would expect similar size/quality as what the photographer would do for paid shoot, with maybe slightly less retouching and maybe fewer photos. The model's time is valuable too and it was an agreement made. But I have been starting to do photography myself too and would expect the same from myself as a photographer. Just because the model did not pay me, doesn't mean she doesn't get quality. Plus, if she posts photos stating I was the photographer, I want them to actually be of good quality. I would never demand raw files. I would offer to do editing at times, but I am better at editing than some of the people I've shot with and have better software, and my mentor can do some neat things too. For that it would be better to have raw file, but I would never demand it. I will not print though and will not demand prints. Digital only. Hi Shura, Thank you for your informed input, gained from your experiences on both sides of a camera.
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11732
Olney, Maryland, US
Camera Buff wrote:
. . . I lack enthusiasm, motivation and the time to continue participating in the MM forums.
I have decided to take a time-out.
Clothing Designer
veypurr
Posts: 464
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
The acceptable minimum size is 1.62
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Mark Salo wrote:
Camera Buff wrote:
. . . I lack enthusiasm, motivation and the time to continue participating in the MM forums.
I have decided to take a time-out. I am being polite and simply thanking those who have 'kindly' responded to my topic.
Do you have a problem with being polite?
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
veypurr wrote:
The acceptable minimum size is 1.62 FYI, the acceptable minimum size today is 1.68, but let's stay on point!
Clothing Designer
veypurr
Posts: 464
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
Camera Buff wrote:
FYI, the acceptable minimum size today is 1.68, but let's stay on point! I am staying on point. The name of this thread is "TFP- What's acceptable as a minimum MP image size?"
Answering the question is not staying on point?
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 28745
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
i cant recall anyone sending me an image I actually wanted to use that was too small/low quality so I've never had to think about what I'd consider bare-minimum.
As a photographer I usually upload and send 1024s or 2048s. nobodies ever asked me for bigger.
Photographer
Camera Buff
Posts: 924
Maryborough, Queensland, Australia
Laura UnBound wrote:
i cant recall anyone sending me an image I actually wanted to use that was too small/low quality so I've never had to think about what I'd consider bare-minimum.
As a photographer I usually upload and send 1024s or 2048s. nobodies ever asked me for bigger. Hi Laura, Thanks for commenting.
In the past, (as a minimum) I'd deliver 8 ×10 inch prints for TFP work.
Today, I deliver digital files of 2400pixels x 3000pixels (at 300dpi = 8×10 inch prints).
This way, if a model wants or needs an 8 x 10, they’re able and welcome to print their own.
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