Bob Helm Photography wrote:
Everyone values their time differently, Photographers know what they want to pay and what they can pay while models know hat they want to get and what they will accept. Presumably both know their CODB but everything is flexible. If the model price is too high ( for you budget) you make an offer, smart people will always counter even if it is the same price as it gives the other party to accept. If they don't replay they may be saying no to a yes.

If it is a touring model sometimes a lower paying job is the one that provides a profit for the day and for a photographer if they haven't been shooting as much as they want sometimes going over budget for the tight model is a win. For me it always boils down to the model, the budget and what I want/ need at the moment.

Yes while the economy is driving prices up it is also restricting budgets on non essentials for many. 2022 aint no different than 2020, 2017 or any other year when it comes to setting prices. The seller sets the ask but the buyer sets the sell price and hopefully everyone is happy...of at least satisfied.

Good points, I was hoping for something more than just negotiate and see what happens, I almost didn't post this because I wasn't sure what question to ask, but good points nonetheless.

I can factor in the photographer's likely restricted budgets too if it suggests models aren't locking in higher premiums easily.

Although there are some serious winners over the last two years, I'm not sure if thats really translating to people booking models for photoshoots. Maybe for atmosphere and in person promotion things, but I'll ask around.

For now I'll chip in a little more for transportation.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
With all the added headaches of covid testing, different rules and "recommendations" every other week,  etc, you bet your sweet bootay I raised my rates.

Yes, but you would be worth working with at any price.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Yes, but you would be worth working with at any price.

I'd be blushing if I wasn't so jaded, Hunter. 😚

John Jebbia  wrote:
It used to be that $100/hr was the magic number that would get most models' attention. Lately I've been quoted $125 or $150/hr (mostly from traveling models) though many of the local models will still show up for $100/hr.

Since I use my content commercially, I tend to pay more for models with searchable stage names.

100%

thanks, yes, this is exactly my experience. except the ways I monetize are rarely based on the popularity of the model, or long after they were popular.

I am more likely to accept higher rates from a talented model with clout, but I also more likely am content with other options. (There are also talented models with clout that are at the tail end of their career, from their own perspective even in their mid 20s, and charging lower rates because they think they are less in demand than some prior time). When I don't have a muse I'm working with all the time, I tend to forget that there are people I can just reach out to, because I just go straight to the MM availability notices and see who is around. Sometimes I'm in a time sensitive circumstance or am impatient to try out some new gear or concept, and during that time a talented model with clout is available or responds.

But yeah, I'm still accepting more inputs on this. Not opposed to increasing the bid. Just want to be able to rationalize it based on market forces.

All Yours Photography wrote:
I shot almost exclusively TF before, but I have now moved to a much less populated area to live with my daughter and grandkids and taken a day job for significantly less money.

A MM browse for female models within 50 miles nets 4 profiles, one of whom hasn't logged onto the site for 10 months.  From my old hometown, a 50 mile search got 54 model profiles.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will likely not be doing much shooting with models anytime soon.

sorry to read that, but I'm sure there was a stronger reason for you to move with them, and a strong reason for them to be raising a family way out there

if the money ever fixes itself there are enough models that will travel even if its just you acquiring them a flight, and its better to stick with people already modeling than putting up a notice at a university

Camera Buff wrote:
Australian - Mannequins and Models Award 2020

https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/sh … P308_22892

lol, thank you. For anyone passing by remember that right now in USD terms they are only 73% of the posted rates. So the $109/hr is really $79/hr US

TomFRohwer wrote:
Regarding to the US Department of Labor the average payment (median) in the US for models in 2020 was:

$31,910 per year
$15.34 per hour

"Median" means: 50% are higher, 50% are lower.

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/models.htm)

Many models, like myself, never filed taxes using "model" as our job title, so the Department of Labor has no idea what models make.  I used to use "artist" but now I use "internet publisher."

TomFRohwer wrote:
Regarding to the US Department of Labor the average payment (median) in the US for models in 2020 was:

$31,910 per year
$15.34 per hour

"Median" means: 50% are higher, 50% are lower.

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/models.htm)

this kind of does make me want to see what a casting call like this would net, although I prefer working with talented models who already know this higher common tier of compensation, I am curious if there are some gems at this comp range. I really expect a headache though.

But yes, I do expect to see a bi-modal compensation range.

Many grouped around $15/hr, many grouped around $75-125/hr, significant overlap in which models would take both gigs.

C.C. Holdings  wrote:

this kind of does make me want to see what a casting call like this would net, although I prefer working with talented models who already know this higher common tier of compensation, I am curious if there are some gems at this comp range. I really expect a headache though.

But yes, I do expect to see a bi-modal compensation range.

Many grouped around $15/hr, many grouped around $75-125/hr, significant overlap in which models would take both gigs.

Those numbers assume that a model works 40 hours a week.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Those numbers assume that a model works 40 hours a week.

Good point, and thats for sure not true

h1bdata.info has information about fashion models on visas, which is directly from the department of labor, and thats $67000-100,000 per year

knowing many the freelance models out there, many of them are barely breaking even at any rate. like their expenses scale with their earnings until they decide to do something else. thats just from what I've noticed, I'm sure some are socking away savings successfully.

for now I'm thinking to keep rates unchanged. I'll continue offering $100/hr as before, as it must be just as impossible for anyone else to reach a consensus, and I'm thinking models are still encountering a worse and time-consuming experience negotiating with people that want lower rates.

I'll keep it under advisement to revisit this topic a few years from now. I think it is possible to streamline different compensation methods instead of just upfront payment, they exist now and before but just aren't streamlined.

tcphoto wrote:
It seems like rates haven't changed since I worked as a model but expenses have skyrocketed. I've been shooting for 27 years now and most budgets have been slashed so there's no room for higher model rates. If anyone is going to get more it's the Makeup Artist, Stylist and Assistants who actually make the shoot work.

I know some people that have grown their network as assistants. I don't know how much they make per shoot but they get on some pretty interesting sets with interesting brands. Definitely doesn't seem as crowded of a field as I would expect.

Varton Photography wrote:
I have the impression that the pandemic created a shortage of working talent that could explain a tendency in higher rates for anyone available to work in a creative process.

Hm maybe, seems like there are many variables that would push and pull the outcome there.

Either way, I'm finding that nature is healing in that regard. Many models on the circuit. I would at least say that it pushed some existing models to retire, as a significant portion of the whole generation moved back in with their parents, often in the middle of nowhere. But given 1 or 2 years there is whole new crop of people willing to give it a shot.

But perhaps if expenses have risen AND there is a shortage of models, then if we want to attract more models then rates should go up. I personally don't get the impression we want or need more models though, but my perspective is likely shaped by the major markets I stay in like LA.

MoRina wrote:

Many models, like myself, never filed taxes using "model" as our job title, so the Department of Labor has no idea what models make.  I used to use "artist" but now I use "internet publisher."

I used to read a lot about the BLS data.  As I recall it’s not based on what models report, but based on those who regularly hire models so it’s not representative of MM freelance models and also doesn’t reflect models who TF. 

BLS data also shows photography is a hard profession to make a good living at.   I’ve learned what people brag about online and what study data shows are often very different things.  Related, I’ve noticed what freelance models post as rates and what they often accept are often wildly different.   Similarly, I can post a models wanted add for far less than than what many here claim is “standard” and get lots of interest, at least prior to covid that was true.

I think the bottom line is that for most,  neither photography or modeling are incredibly lucrative.  Most of it because it’s their passion, not because it’s easy money.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Related, I’ve noticed what freelance models post as rates and what they often accept are often wildly different.   Similarly, I can post a models wanted add for far less than than what many here claim is “standard” and get lots of interest.

Yeah, many years in the past I had done $25/hr casting calls and got lots of bites, right now in LA availability notices here there are models asking $50/hr.

I've seen similar in various suburbs, smaller towns, big towns.

If I spent time on it I could find a couple of talented art muses willing to shoot any kind of content at those rates, especially if you suggest there will be more projects. And of course there are lots of things to barter for.

But lower rates and trade comes with strings attached, like drama, or their friends/lovers/family not knowing they model yet, or expectations about getting images that I don't personally have time for.

I've just found that $100/hr gets the maximum amount of talented models willing to shoot any content, quickly, without any drama, without any negotiations, without any expectation of images in any time frame. If they had other priorities it gets bumped, even if they ask for higher rates with just a few outliers.

C.C. Holdings  wrote:
I've just found that $100/hr gets the maximum amount of talented models willing to shoot any content, quickly, without any drama, without any negotiations, without any expectation of images in any time frame. If they had other priorities it gets bumped, even if they ask for higher rates with just a few outliers.

That was it for me as well.  Several years ago I could get nude models for $30/hour and even  TF with some effort.  Spending more didn’t mean better models, spending notably more just meant more reliable  bookings with less effort, fewer cancellations, etc.  Prior to covid I could still post an add and reliably get a model for boudoir for $30/hour but again, I might talk to 10 models to get a single shoot.  Traveling models  have more  overhead costs they need to cover, but it also means they are more committed.

The future is unknown but I think not being in a major market everything will be slower for me regardless of price range.   It’s not just inflation, availability has changed.   There’s simply fewer models available.

C.C. Holdings  wrote:

sorry to read that, but I'm sure there was a stronger reason for you to move with them, and a strong reason for them to be raising a family way out there

if the money ever fixes itself there are enough models that will travel even if its just you acquiring them a flight, and its better to stick with people already modeling than putting up a notice at a university

My wife passed away in 2020, so I moved to be with the daughter and grands.  Driving a school bus because it puts me on the same schedule as the kids and covers medical insurance, but pays about 1/4 what my old job did.  I was working 75 hours a week and now work 30 per week and only work 35 weeks a year. Sharing household expenses with the daughter works for day to day stuff, but paying hundreds for a shoot isn't going to happen.  The kids are more important and I am happy with my life.  You can't have everything.

All Yours Photography wrote:

My condolences on your wife's passing.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
I have gotten two model's who responded to casting calls with a $200 per hour rate. One had a minimum of 2 hours and one required 4 hours.  I can assure you that those terms are not going to work for me.

I have much better results by offering a rate first. Why don't you just modify your casting call without the Paid (TBD) and just say a specific dollar rate per hour?

C.C. Holdings  wrote:
I have much better results by offering a rate first. Why don't you just modify your casting call without the Paid (TBD) and just say a specific dollar rate per hour?

Understood and that is a rational approach.  However, I am willing to pay more for an experienced model and for someone that fits the vision better than someone that is inexperienced or whom I can just get by with.  I don't want to low ball in the casting call and miss out on a good solution.  Most experienced models are reasonable.  Newbies, sometimes, sometimes not.  If the right model was driving a long distance and the hours she was to be paid was to be limited to one hour, then $200 might be reasonable, but a model with a $100 rate and minimum of 2 hours would be better.

All Yours Photography wrote:
……, but paying hundreds for a shoot isn't going to happen…….

I think we all need to decide what we are willing or not willing to spend on a hobby.  I’m certainly not going to spend 100s on a single shoot either, at least not regularly.   Prior to covid, I was able to find models much more affordably.   Hopefully, I’ll find that again, but if not there are plenty of other subjects to shoot.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Understood and that is a rational approach.  However, I am willing to pay more for an experienced model and for someone that fits the vision better than someone that is inexperienced or whom I can just get by with.  I don't want to low ball in the casting call and miss out on a good solution.  Most experienced models are reasonable.  Newbies, sometimes, sometimes not.  If the right model was driving a long distance and the hours she was to be paid was to be limited to one hour, then $200 might be reasonable, but a model with a $100 rate and minimum of 2 hours would be better.

Yeah, that matters too, but I would attempt multiple casting calls spread out over time, like 3 weeks apart. You'll get a collection of who responds very quickly.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
I have gotten two model's who responded to casting calls with a $200 per hour rate. One had a minimum of 2 hours and one required 4 hours.  I can assure you that those terms are not going to work for me.

Fuck me, that's miserable.

Next time I'm visiting pals in Ohio I'll pop over if you want me to sit. (late March/April)

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I’ve noticed what freelance models post as rates and what they often accept are often wildly different.
  Similarly, I can post a models wanted add for far less than than what many here claim is “standard” and get lots of interest, at least prior to covid that was true.

This.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Fuck me, that's miserable.

Next time I'm visiting pals in Ohio I'll pop over if you want me to sit. (late March/April)

the ravens dilemma wrote:
I'm sorta different is that I travel to locations looking for models at those sites. Sometimes things go astray because of the last minute princess attitude (Oklahoma City). But for the most part anywhere I go, globally, I have been able to pay roughly the same rate of $100 to $150 USD for nude and non-nude models. Now I have been using some models regularly which gets me a reduced rate because I fly them to a specific area, etc.

However, with everything I have said above, I have seen some outrageous prices coming from new models who have nothing more than 1 or 2 sessions under their belts. Generally those prices have been anywhere from $200 to $400 an hour for casual and $500 an hour nude. I in fact had one model who quoted me $2500 an hour, because her terms, "Aren't I beautiful and worth it?" I retorted back, no. She didn't care for the answer but I didn't care at that point. So anytime a model quotes me above the standard rates I offer globally, I tell them, that's a great rate, but it's not within my budget at this time.

Of course there are some countries where $100 an hour is high and can get you 2 to 3 hour shoot time. Which is great for the pocketbook but that is the exception and not the rule. But when I pay the models those rates most are happy with it and we have a productive session.

Thanks for this contribution. Yes, I also have been able to make flights and experiences the compensation. Often times I already have resources or have a bunch of airline points so flights are free, for me. And when I have a muse, anything can be negotiated.

My question to you is why do you work with the newer models? Or do you. Isn't it a headache even if you did get the mispriced ones to do $100/hr?

But as you might also have also experienced, I've booked people with the seemingly most prudish profiles for clothed shoots, and had a very wild (but professional) experience. Some people just click together. Ha, click.

the ravens dilemma wrote:
and $500 an hour nude. In fact had one model who quoted me $2500 an hour, because her terms, "Aren't I beautiful and worth it?"

Oh, my! LOL.