Forums > General Industry > Contract for spec work, payout split with models

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 138

Los Angeles, California, US

Does anybody have any example contracts for shooting spec work with models?

The general concept is that photos are submitted to an established publication that pays out if accepted, and the payment is split between the photographer and model. In one scenario where the photographer is reaching out to talent, the model accepts a reduced or waived hourly rate. Hence, the spec or speculation work.

I know there are a couple photographers here that do something like that, so if there is an associated contract I would love to see examples of it! I see models doing something like this alot with OnlyFans and Patreon, but that seems excessively informal as I don't get the impression there is any contract or any streamlined way to tell how much a particular image makes to do a split.

I'll have my own entertainment lawyers review and button it up from there for my specific use case. Much cheaper to have a contract reviewed than built from scratch.

My goal is to have a template that is easy for me to change the conditions: what the upfront payment looks like, what the potential backend payment looks like whether its fixed, or percent, or limited in time, value, duration. In my world it is much easier to negotiate when 90% of the formalities are already prepared.

Although I can predict a discussion about the improbability of getting paid, and why many models don't want to shoot for "exposure", I can predict being in circumstance where I need a record of models opting for upfront payment (or opting out of anything more convoluted), since people will want to know.

Thanks!

Mar 09 22 04:58 pm Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9421

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Since you already have a relationship with your own entertainment lawyers, I would think the best thing to do is not ask other photographers about a contract, but to have your lawyers write one up specifically for you.

That way, when someone on ModelMayhem asks other photographers for a 'template' or 'example' of their contract, you can be the one to supply what your lawyers have written for you . . . Certainly, a contract written by a lawyer will be more binding than one written by a photographer, or one copied from something on the internet.

I've been working on a trade basis with models for many years. In the chain of emails between the model and myself, I spell out the conditions upon which I work, what usage they may have of the photos, and under what conditions they might get paid from potential licensing of their images to magazines and how the monies shall be divided between us.

I've sold many dozens of photo layouts to magazines over the years and have never had any problem or complaints from models about the arrangement.

Mar 09 22 05:51 pm Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 138

Los Angeles, California, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Since you already have a relationship with your own entertainment lawyers, I would think the best thing to do is not ask other photographers about a contract, but to have your lawyers write one up specifically for you.

That way, when someone on ModelMayhem asks other photographers for a 'template' or 'example' of their contract, you can be the one to supply what your lawyers have written for you . . . Certainly, a contract written by a lawyer will be more binding than one written by a photographer, or one copied from something on the internet.

I've been working on a trade basis with models for many years. In the chain of emails between the model and myself, I spell out the conditions upon which I work, what usage they may have of the photos, and under what conditions they might get paid from potential licensing of their images to magazines and how the monies shall be divided between us.

I've sold many dozens of photo layouts to magazines over the years and have never had any problem or complaints from models about the arrangement.

My experience with that is that most lawyers aren't better at this than we are. Most will first do a cursory check on Google just like we will. They aren't inventing a collection of clauses from years of research and the latest case law for the jurisdiction, they're just catering to their technophobic audience that is afraid of computers. I would like a collection of clauses from years of research and the latest case law for the jurisdiction for this specific topic, but I don't trust the lawyers at firms I know to do that. Always looking though!

It's been more fruitful for me to have a starting direction to point the lawyer in. Hence the purpose of this thread.

In both scenarios, completely new contract, or crowd sourced conditions that the relevant lawyer reviews, the lawyers still add a couple boilerplate clauses that are useful. So we'll get that part either way.

Let me know if you've encountered any unexpected things that you've begun navigating better over time, in how you write the conditions in your emails

Mar 09 22 06:07 pm Link

Photographer

Dan Howell

Posts: 3577

Kerhonkson, New York, US

What publications are you thinking still pay photographers or models? For the most part that ship has sailed. There are numerous virtual/online/print-on-demand publications now but they are not viable revenue generators. I can't think of any situation that would even justify the cost of even a single visit with a lawyer.

I have worked for numerous publications mostly on assignment, but also frequently by submission. While there is a temptation to avoid model fees at time of shoot, I have never found that option to ultimately be a practical approach. I would not recommend it under any conditions, not that you asked. As closely aligned you think your goals are to that of a model, there are easily imaginable conditions where conflicts arise.

No offense, but I have encountered photographers in the past who felt that being overly officious and prepared on the business side will help accelerate their visual opportunities, but I have not found that to be the case. I'm not saying that you fall into that category because I don't know you, but I would not recommend spending funds on things like contracts before spending funds on location access, make up artists, stylists and model fees. Those will accelerate visual opportunities.

Mar 10 22 03:52 am Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 138

Los Angeles, California, US

Dan Howell wrote:
I have worked for numerous publications mostly on assignment, but also frequently by submission. While there is a temptation to avoid model fees at time of shoot, I have never found that option to ultimately be a practical approach. I would not recommend it under any conditions, not that you asked. As closely aligned you think your goals are to that of a model, there are easily imaginable conditions where conflicts arise.

Yeah, I find it more convenient to pay models at a fixed or hourly rate. Its the most clear cut. I don't like the strings attached or delivery expectations or compensation ambiguity that come with trade.

I recognize there is a possibility of paying their normal hourly rate and simply giving them royalties at a predefined rate. But this isn't favorable because there is room for better alignment, for example, an incentive for the talent to promote or bring awareness to the publication on their own networks to drive more sales and hence more payouts, in leui of initial full payment.

Mar 10 22 08:27 am Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9421

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Roaring 20s wrote:
Let me know if you've encountered any unexpected things that you've begun navigating better over time, in how you write the conditions in your emails

I don't recall any unexpected thing that you are asking about, but here are a typical paragraph that I send to models I meet online, once they reply to my first message asking if they would be interested in doing a 'Content-Exchange' shoot:

"The content I provide you will consist of high quality digital copies of all my edited, finalized, and retouched images from any shoot we may do. Any image that I use on my website is available to you.
An average shoot will usually produce anywhere between 20 and 150 images that you may use for your own Personal Website, OnlyFans, Internet, Self Promotions, and all types of Social Media. I retain All Other Rights including Magazine, Books, Print Sales and Exhibitions.
In the event that any of your images are selected for a magazine cover or layout, I split the proceeds from the publisher with you"

Slight variations of this have been used by me for over 25 years with no problems.

Using 'legal language' can sometimes scare off potential models, so I prefer plain everyday language that can be easily understood.  I reserve the legal language for the Model Releases and the 2257 paperwork.

Mar 10 22 03:42 pm Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 138

Los Angeles, California, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
I don't recall any unexpected thing that you are asking about, but here are a typical paragraph that I send to models I meet online, once they reply to my first message asking if they would be interested in doing a 'Content-Exchange' shoot:

"The content I provide you will consist of high quality digital copies of all my edited, finalized, and retouched images from any shoot we may do. Any image that I use on my website is available to you.
An average shoot will usually produce anywhere between 20 and 150 images that you may use for your own Personal Website, OnlyFans, Internet, Self Promotions, and all types of Social Media. I retain All Other Rights including Magazine, Books, Print Sales and Exhibitions.
In the event that any of your images are selected for a magazine cover or layout, I split the proceeds from the publisher with you"

Slight variations of this have been used by me for over 25 years with no problems.

Using 'legal language' can sometimes scare off potential models, so I prefer plain everyday language that can be easily understood.  I reserve the legal language for the Model Releases and the 2257 paperwork.

Thanks for that example!

Yes, I 100% agree about legal language scaring some people off, especially amongst freelancers, and doubly true in the creative arts space. It often suggests that a very wide degree of power dynamics are in play, which is probably basically true, and that they don't have the tools or interest in deciphering the meaning or purpose of all clauses, or if it benefits them or not.

and yeah, content of emails can be considered binding, in most kinds of agreements.

Mar 10 22 04:10 pm Link