Focuspuller wrote:

Now you know why it isn't a good idea to run your mouth on a subject you know nothing about, on the crass assumption that nobody else knows any more than you do because the information must be classified.

The history books say that the US offensive BW program ended 50 years ago, but you claim to know differently. Let's see you back up that claim with some evidence, if you can.

JSouthworth wrote:
Now you know why it isn't a good idea to run your mouth on a subject you know nothing about, on the crass assumption that nobody else knows any more than you do because the information must be classified.

The history books say that the US offensive BW program ended 50 years ago, but you claim to know differently. Let's see you back up that claim with some evidence, if you can.

Oh that is rich. Still waiting for your military, political, or foreign policy credentials. Anything backing up your incessant and unsubstantiated claims on all subjects you deign to bloviate on.

And your faith in US government veracity as found in the "history books" is amusing. Maybe you heard of "The Pentagon Papers"? Find those Saddam Hussein WMD's, did you? Watergate lies ring a bell? Iran-Contra sound familiar? Francis Gary Powers' "weather mission"?

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the history of US government deception before you credulously swallow everything it claims hook, line , and sinker. And you know, before you run your mouth, some skepticism.

Focuspuller wrote:
And your faith in US government veracity as found in the "history books" is amusing. Maybe you heard of "The Pentagon Papers"? Find those Saddam Hussein WMD's, did you? Watergate lies ring a bell? Iran-Contra sound familiar? Francis Gary Powers' "weather mission"?

I'm familiar with all of those but none of them relate directly to your claim that the US government or the US military still has biological weapons.

Here's a link to another document from the 1960s with some information about the arrangements for transporting biological weapons, the procedures for using them and the perceived advantages and disadvantages c/w chemical, nuclear and conventional weapons.

The BW program was secret at the time, much is still classified but it's possible to trace the evolution of BW doctrine and the development of the weapons, with a bit of cross-referencing. A worthwhile subject to research if you have the time.

https://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-u … 962%29.pdf

JSouthworth wrote:
I'm familiar with all of those but none of them relate directly to your claim that the US government or the US military still has biological weapons.

Total nonsense. I made no such "claim."

Here is a new word for you learn:

"skepticism"
skĕp′tĭ-sĭz″əm
noun
1. A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; dubiety. synonym: uncertainty.
2. The ancient school of Pyrrho of Elis that stressed the uncertainty of our beliefs in order to oppose dogmatism.
3. The doctrine that absolute knowledge is impossible, either in a particular domain or in general.

-The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

Once you have demonstrated a mastery of the concept, we will move on to "evidence", then "proof",  and "relevance,"

Focuspuller wrote:
Total nonsense. I made no such "claim."

I think I follow you. You're saying that you don't know one way or the other.

In one sense, the question is actually whether they had them in the first place. The weapons, biological agents and support equipment existed, but on a small scale, in keeping with the secret nature of the program so it was questionable whether they had a genuine operational capability as opposed to a test program. At the time of the cancellation of the program there were apparently only eight aircraft spray tanks in the inventory, although this figure probably does not include the US Navy Aero 14B spray tanks which could be used with either chemical or liquid (wet) biological agents.

JSouthworth wrote:

I think I follow you. You're saying that you don't know one way or the other.

In one sense, the question is actually whether they had them in the first place. The weapons, biological agents and support equipment existed, but on a small scale, in keeping with the secret nature of the program so it was questionable whether they had a genuine operational capability as opposed to a test program. At the time of the cancellation of the program there were apparently only eight aircraft spray tanks in the inventory, although this figure probably does not include the US Navy Aero 14B spray tanks which could be used with either chemical or liquid (wet) biological agents.

Wrong again.

I am saying YOU don't know one way or the other.

Oh, and your credentials....I think I follow you. You have none.

Focuspuller wrote:

Wrong again.

I am saying YOU don't know one way or the other.

Whatever, dude. Peace.

JSouthworth wrote:
Here is Wikipedia's list of CB agents, with a reference to the dual chemical/biological capability of the Aero 14B (or Aero 14/B) spray tank, used by the US Navy. This is the only biological munition specifically referred to in FM 3-10, Employment of Chemical and Biological Agents (1966).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB_military_symbol

Maybe you missed this disclaimer:

"This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
Find sources: "CB military symbol" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (October 2014) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

JSouthworth wrote:
Interesting article here presents a new approach to the problem of defending US interests in the far east;

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita … ontainers/

Pre-deployed drones in shipping containers? Pitched by a drone manufacturer standing to profit mightily if the USAF buys  the concept. The US defense budget is so fat, defense contractors are constantly dangling concepts like this because the payoff would be huge.

Focuspuller wrote:

Pre-deployed drones in shipping containers? Pitched by a drone manufacturer standing to profit mightily if the USAF buys  the concept. The US defense budget is so fat, defense contractors are constantly dangling concepts like this because the payoff would be huge.

Yes, except the Republicans have cut the budget for replacement missiles- possibly to starve Ukraine from the weapons, but in face of a threat from China?

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/1 … e-00102531

JSouthworth wrote:
Here's a document from the 1960s which details the crash testing of a special sealed and impact resistant shipping container for biological weapons (referred to as "certain munitions" in the text). Three C119 aircraft were destroyed in the process.

By the mid 1960s, biological agents in bulk could be kept in usable condition for a few months with refrigeration, but once the weapon had been filled, it had to be used as soon as possible, necessitating delivery by air to the forward air force or navy unit.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/AD0823623

If someone wanted to make a movie on the subject of the biological weapons program, this kind of detail would be useful.

Here's another document which positively identifies the type of biological weapon used in the crash testing as the USAF A/B45Y-1 biological spray tank. This is what I mean about cross-referencing.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0686313.pdf

Focuspuller wrote:

Maybe you missed this disclaimer:

"This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
Find sources: "CB military symbol" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (October 2014) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

There are a number of documents available which refer to the use of the Aero 14B spray tank in BW testing;
https://documents.theblackvault.com/doc … l/1018.pdf

The information in the Wikipedia article, CB military symbol, is entirely reliable.

JSouthworth wrote:
Here is Wikipedia's list of CB agents, with a reference to the dual chemical/biological capability of the Aero 14B (or Aero 14/B) spray tank, used by the US Navy. This is the only biological munition specifically referred to in FM 3-10, Employment of Chemical and Biological Agents (1966).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB_military_symbol

And what exactly does this have to do with your credulous belief that the US has no stockpiled BW or CW? Citing irrelevant minutia is your forte, we all know, from which you build entire universes in your mind. But WIKIPEDIA?

JSouthworth wrote:
The information in the Wikipedia article, CB military symbol, is entirely reliable.

Credentials? Expertise? Any?

JSouthworth wrote:
Here is Wikipedia's list of CB agents, with a reference to the dual chemical/biological capability of the Aero 14B (or Aero 14/B) spray tank, used by the US Navy. This is the only biological munition specifically referred to in FM 3-10, Employment of Chemical and Biological Agents (1966).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB_military_symbol

The Wikipedia list doesn't include the antipersonnel biological agents AA, BB and CC, respectively Lugo fatigue, September fever and Toledo infection. These are the hypothetical biological agents referred to in some field manuals such as FM 3-10 (1966). They were invented by the US Army so that they could train people in biological warfare without having to give them the classified data on the real biological agents.

Another point that should be made is that not all of the biological agents listed were produced in quantity. There were seven that were, but not all at the same time. These were; anthrax, tularemia, Q fever, Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis, Brucellosis, Botulinum toxin, and Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B.

JSouthworth wrote:
These were; anthrax, tularemia, Q fever, Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis, Brucellosis, Botulinum toxin, and Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B.

Line up for the big death metal music festival in Tulare this summer!

Studio NSFW wrote:
Line up for the big death metal music festival in Tulare this summer!

So are Anthrax on the bill? Tularemia was first identified as a disease of ground squirrels in Tulare county in 1911. Deerfly fever is an alternative name, it can be spread to humans by flies from infected animal carcasses.

Anthrax, tularemia and botulinum toxin were the lethal biological agents, the others were incapacitants intended to make people ill for a while. Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B seems to have been live tested on US Navy ships and personnel, partly to assess the effectiveness of protective measures, the effect of the toxin was to make people vomit for an hour or so.

JSouthworth wrote:
So are Anthrax on the bill? Tularemia was first identified as a disease of ground squirrels in Tulare county in 1911. Deerfly fever is an alternative name, it can be spread to humans by flies from infected animal carcasses.

Anthrax, tularemia and botulinum toxin were the lethal biological agents, the others were incapacitants intended to make people ill for a while. Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B seems to have been live tested on US Navy ships and personnel, partly to assess the effectiveness of protective measures, the effect of the toxin was to make people vomit for an hour or so.

Available here is a heavily redacted, but nevertheless informative document listing the Aero 14B, A/B45Y-1, A/B45Y-4 spray tanks and the M143 bomblet as the munitions suitable for delivering TR1 and TR2 anthrax biological agents. These were powder biological agents which could be used in that form with the A/B45Y-4 dry agent spray tank and M143 bomblet, or mixed with water for use in liquid spray systems. The M143 bomblet could be delivered to the target by the Misteye cluster bomb or the Sergeant missile.

https://vdocument.in/joint-cb-technical … tml?page=1

The importance of anthrax to the offensive BW program can be gauged from the number of open air tests conducted using agent BG or Bacillus Globigii, this being the simulant for it's lethal relative, bacillus anthracis. It should be noted that the figures quoted in the document for the efficiency of dissemination for different weapons were determined using simulants.