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Nudity necessary to advance in this profession?
In my very limited time here I've already been approached by photographers on MM & Instagram about potentially shooting either nude/ lingerie/ fetish. Some seem professional while others are outright creepy bringing up erotic photography so obvi huge red flags! My question is, how necessary is nudity to build ones portfolio/ actually advance in my "artistic career" as an aspiring model? I know that photographers can be predatory but I'm more than open to that type of work if it opens new venues of opprotunity. I just don't want to come off as naive, I would like to know what do you ask when proposed that type of work? and how best to handle yourself? - thank you in advanced!💛 Aug 26 22 02:46 am Link Hopefully some female models and photographers will respond to your post. Maybe you will want to post the topic in the female model's only forum, too. I have been surprised over the years when a model answers a casting call for nude work when her profile is marked "no nudes." When I had inquired about the discrepancy, I was told a few things. Marking no nudes helped keep down some of the most obnoxious inquiries and by marking no nudes it allowed the model to be more selective. Many models have posted about receiving abusive responses from various photographers after refusing certain projects with them. https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19963488 https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19963244 https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19963242 (^^^^^^^ Good people!^^^^^^) You can impose conditions and demand conditional or limited releases. One of my standard releases constrains me from releasing any nude photos where the subject is identifiable. Some guys would balk at such a release, but it serves me well since I am often painting friends. Of course you know full well, that once you shoot something, it could end up on the internet forever, so never shoot content you don't want to ever become public. I think you answered your own question, in that increasing your versatility, increases your opportunity. But the more you make known the true limits of your range, I think, that you extend your exposure to the "creep factor." You will also find mission creep, where things are introduced during the shoot that extend the boundaries, which were not discussed in advance. You need to be prepared to stand your ground or walk. You can find the site rules here: https://www.modelmayhem.com/education/site-rules. Pornography is not allowed. Certain types of photos are not allowed, including "emphasis on genitals," and, I think, anything that involves penetration, body fluids or excrement, only fully flaccid penises, etc.. If someone is soliciting you on the site for illegal work or Imminently dangerous content, or harassing you, you can report them to the mods. To contact a mod, click the help icon on the top right of the screen and find "Contact a Moderator (Logged-In Member Accounts Only)" on the left side of the resulting page, under "top links." Aug 26 22 03:53 am Link Adrianaaxgx wrote: Most of the photographers on MM are going to hate me for this answer but it's EXTREMELY RARE that posing nude for a MM photographer will open up OPPORTUNITIES (in the classic sense, meaning that you'd constantly be getting otherwise hard to get well paying gigs for major clients and maybe a little fame to go along with it). Aug 26 22 06:40 am Link It depends on what you mean by "advance your career". Aug 26 22 06:40 am Link I can't imagine it does anything but increase the number of photographers who reach out to you to shoot nude for their portfolio. Think about what your goals are for modeling, and what sort of clients you want to eventually work for, and from there put yourself in their shoes and think about what kind of work they would be looking for in the portfolio of models they want to hire. Aug 26 22 07:07 am Link I'd like to suggest that, if you're unsure about it, then it's probably not for you... Over the years, I've encountered a lot of models that are eager to get into it. For lack of a better description, it's a different outlook. That doesn't mean they might not encounter some problems as a result, and have to learn how to better "filter out" various job offers and some photographers, etc. But some models thrive on it and the increased attention (depending on the model) that it may generate. And I can tell you that the results from a model with a great look, that LOVES the work, is usually far better than from one that regards it as a "something they have to do". It's been used successfully, by some, to build a stronger income, leveraging (for those that have a great look and a popular public persona) their increased following in a variety of ways. Yes, SOME have used their popularity as a stepping stone. BUT, doing nude work is in no way a guarantee, nor is it a requirement. Doing nude work because you think you "need to" (hoping to become more successful) is, I'd suggest, the worst reason to do it. Aug 26 22 07:33 am Link Model Mayhem has always been a good source of models for nude/erotic magazine layouts. I can think of at least a dozen MM models that I've shot in the last few years that have been published as centerfolds and/or featured as covergirls. Many others have been published as secondary editorial layouts. I generally don't work through model agencies, and for the last 20 years have found plenty of beautiful talent to shoot using social media (like MM and Twitter). I shoot only on a content-exchange basis (TFP), but if and when a layout gets published, I split the earnings with the models. Aug 26 22 07:38 am Link Well first of all, freelance modeling through sites like MM is not representative of the profession of modeling. I’ve certainly come across a few here who model as their profession who don’t do nude work, but they are a minority, most do nudes. As MM becomes less active, I think it will become even harder to make a professional income without doing nude modeling. I think even many of the better nude models are struggling to make a decent income. Aug 26 22 10:04 am Link Define where you want your profession to advance? Are you looking to become a nude art model? Yes, nudity is necessary for that. Some genres require nudes, others it is optional and others not at all. Don't do nudes because you think it will help your career. You might find more offers of work from all the GWC but the nudes they provide won't benefit your portfolio. Do them if that's something that you want to do. If you do them. Be smart about it. Aug 26 22 11:21 am Link LightDreams wrote: This is it in a nutshell Aug 26 22 01:46 pm Link I would guess it depends on what direction you're really trying to explore, and how comfortable you are if it includes nudity . . . all styles of modeling can be very competitive from the model's standpoint, and finding a comfortable niche can be challenging . . . is this to be strictly an artistic endevour of self fulfillment, or a career path for fame and riches . . . choosing who holds the camera can certainly be dictated by that as well . . . hopefully you're able to find your way through to the goal you have in mind . . . SOS Aug 26 22 02:35 pm Link I started out as a nude model, because I'd worked as a life drawing model before I even knew there was a market for nude photography models. I ended up building a lifestyle and career as a nude model, that spanned for more than a decade. During that time, I got to travel throughout the United States and live in major US cities, posing for workshops and many different photographers and artists. I grew up working class in southern Appalachia, and wouldn't have had any of those opportunities had I not discovered nude modeling. Over the years, I learned a lot about photography, so by the time I was ready to invest in photography equipment, I already understood basic studio lighting. I had my first paid photography gig within six months of investing in a simple kit and a few lenses. I no longer model, though I still do self-portraiture, photograph models and take paid work as a photographer. I'm extremely proud of the years I traveled and posed nude, as my work has been shown in exhibits in both the US and Europe. My tits are literally in your local Barnes and Noble. How many people can say that about their lives? That they were so hardworking and bad ass, anyone in America can find their work in a commercial bookstore? Very few people have those bragging rights. I do. I had no issues with posing nude. I did it for years. I worked hard and played hard. It was the best choice I could have made. A lot of people die with nothing to show for their lives. I have thousands upon thousands of images of myself to prove that I was alive, and all the places I got to go, all the things I got to see. Aug 26 22 03:51 pm Link Adrianaaxgx wrote: I friend requested you on Instagram Aug 26 22 09:09 pm Link It isn't necessary, it is just more in demand. It is more in demand because less people do it. Non-nude work is much more crowded and pays way less when you get selected. But that's just internet modelling, which is a very different sector than commercial and agency modelling. The latter isn't necessarily better, just the pay structure is very different and the influences of that pay structure are different. Clothed or nude, agency or independent, you really need a client base to go between on a regular basis. A small-decent sized handful of reliable photographers and companies. Even many highly coveted models with idealized features are only financially breaking even sometimes on their travels. But at least it subsidizes their travels if that's something they find fulfilling. So its not really just random bookings paying the bills. It's the regulars. Aug 26 22 10:33 pm Link LightDreams wrote: Thank you sooo much, this really put my thoughts & feelings that I couldn't put into words into perspective for me😭😭 Aug 27 22 02:13 am Link Abbitt Photography wrote: This was my exact train of thought when making my post and asking what I asked! Besides having amazing pictures to show for normal modeling you've done, its always nice having a little extra income. I could only assume that that feeling is much better when doing nudity, as well as the income being nicer. Aug 27 22 02:24 am Link Roaring 20s wrote: Thank you for being concise with your reply, those were my thoughts exactly when making my post. Obviously nudity I feel would stand out more so would have to pay more. I also feel it would open more opportunities to the likes of the ones you mentioned commercial/ agency, not just on MM which I feel is a very exclusive to itself. Aug 27 22 02:37 am Link Alexandra Vincent wrote: The tans will fade, but the memories will last a lifetime. I wish I could say the same one day!!😊💖 Aug 27 22 02:46 am Link Much depends on what you mean by "advance". My atypical experience is that models I have shot nude, and exhibited in established galleries, did indeed move on to greater opportunities. Many of them have subsequently shot with leading talents like, Ralph Gibson, Edward Maxey, and Robert Mapplethorpe a few years back. This also lead to their prints being purchased by Elton John, and inclusion in his private collection book, and in major exhibitions at Atlanta's High Museum of Art. They also produced their own well attended fine art photography workshops in the US, and in Europe. The key was in having their best work seen by those in a position to advance their careers. Shoot with photographers having a verifiable track record of real World publishing, and exhibiting. Aug 27 22 03:03 am Link Adrianaaxgx wrote: Not necessarily. Nude modeling is a skill (as is couture photoshoots, or runway, or product modeling). Simply taking off one’s clothing doesn’t automatically mean one is adept at that genre’s posing and presentation and engagement. So while checking “yes” to nudes might mean more money or opportunity, it’s not by any means a given. There’s a reason why the majority of nude MM/IG/OnlyFans models don’t make bucketloads of cash. Aug 27 22 10:55 am Link There are many specialties. Not all require nudity. I work in commercial/ advertising world. Based on your comments, I think you might be comfortable there. I would suggest you get a headshot and go talk to talent agencies. (You are in an industry town. There must be several good ones.) Ask them about commercial acting and commercial catalog work. You may also enjoy promotional work -i.e. demonstrating products at trade shows. Looking at your age and stats, I think you could get cast as a young mother or young worker. "Delivery driver holding a box" "Mother talking to doctor" etc. Try out for lots of small acting parts. Also try background acting. If you find your career is growing, consider joining SAG. Aug 27 22 11:31 am Link There are likely a variety of reasons why mayhem models aren't top earners. Among those reasons is an inability to identify, and attract top earning legitimate photographers. I've never met any web models who even know what ASMP is, so SAG may not be in awareness either. The information deficit here is unabated. Whatever you pursue, Warren's advice is sound. Aug 27 22 11:33 am Link It's a difficult question to answer, because modelling is really a category including a number of career paths rather than a single one. If you don't want to do nude modelling, perhaps you should look for fashion work. Or aim for the film industry if you're ambitious. Aug 29 22 04:24 am Link The reason I use only models who pose nude (these days), is you get more for your money. A clothed model might charge $75.00 per hour, a nude one $100.00 to $150.00. The model who can pose in and out of clothing, is more desirable. Aug 29 22 12:58 pm Link Adrianaaxgx wrote: I just checked your Insta. You are very beautiful and amazing. Aug 29 22 03:40 pm Link I started out 35 years ago at age 35 modelling naked for art groups and classes and quickly moved onward to include photography as well. I found it was a very good choice for me, very empowering too, and because of that choice I can still model at age 70. Yes, there is an interest in naked models who are my age I've had multiple requests within the past few weeks to work with new photographers and artists that I have not worked with previously. So it definitely opens up the realm of possibilities for getting modelling assignments, if a model is willing to be naked in the name of art. I usually recommend that all newer models try it for a period of time, to see whether it suits their own situation. Aug 29 22 06:55 pm Link It depends on what your goals are. If it is just to make more money then maybe. If it is to have success in other forms of modeling maybe not. What do you want? What are you feel comfortable with? Why dont you want to do nudes? Answer those and you have your answer Sep 06 22 06:51 pm Link I have worked with a young model in Oregon for 6 years or so that has done very limited nudity.The one photog with whom she did do some nude work very early in her modeling career posted the entirety of the set on FlickR - he did later on, at her request, remove them. I told her early in our collaborations that she had all the assets to work in NYC. She's beautiful, shapely, fit, 5' 11" and smart. This year she had her second walk on the runway in New York's Fashion Week. In our working together I was a photographer with whom she could try different things - topless, implied nudity, lingerie, sheer wardrobe - with no pressure to do anything she didn't want to do and being secure in knowing I wasn't going to release anything too revealing. Adrianna, as others have stated, YOU can make your own rules and set your own boundaries. When you find a photog you like and really trust (and produces quality content!) then if you want to try new or nude things, go for it, the world is your oyster. Sep 11 22 12:35 pm Link Alexandra Vincent wrote: We were Gods. Sep 12 22 05:26 pm Link Only do the work that you are comfortable doing. Make sure your boundaries are very clear. Don’t be vague. If you’re not just trying to collect money and care about the results, then judge the photographers work critically to make sure it is something you’d like to be part of. Paid or not. Be firm and clear about onset behavior if you ever feel Uncomfortable. You should know the difference between people who will understand you and those that will continue to push you uncomfortable. Don’t be vague. Be assertive and firm. Sep 17 22 07:59 am Link Warren Leimbach wrote: Thank you soooooo much! This is literally what I had in mind but I wasn't sure if how to properly word it!!😭💖 Sep 18 22 04:39 am Link Adrianaaxgx wrote: Nudity is not at all required to build a portfolio. Especially if you're doing tf shoots to do that, it is 100% not necessary - and I wouldn't recommend you do that for tf even if you were super comfortable shooting nudity or erotic. Sep 26 22 05:19 pm Link Just my opinion, which I might catch flak for, but here goes... If you want to make money modeling but won't shoot nudes, then you better be exceptionally good looking. It's not enough to be "pretty" or "cute", you have to stand out among the crowd with a unique, memorable, captivating look. Nice looking women in their late teens to late 20s are a dime a dozen. If they hustle (i.e. go to casting calls, build up a portfolio with GOOD work instead of mediocre photography, work with quality MUAs, and market themselves well on social media), then they'll obviously get more paid work than the "model" who sets up portfolio full of poorly lit selfies either here or on IG and expects the people with the cash to simply seek them out, but they're not likely to become sought after. I'm friends with a model I've know for over a decade. She's pretty and has a very nice body but doesn't have those leading actress type looks. She's constantly going to casting for TV shows and movies and has gotten several bit parts and walk-on roles, but she has never been picked for a lead (other than maybe some very low-budget film or student project). She's totally okay with that though because she's well aware of where she ranks among the competition. So for her, SOME work is better than NO work. Nude modeling is different. There's a wide spectrum of photography styles, many of which DON'T require top shelf beauty. Some photographers (Such as Glam, swimwear, or Playboy style nude photographers) prefer exceptionally beautiful women with sculpted bodies. Others (Such as fine art photographers) prefer very natural looks because they want their work to show something deeper. Some Porn, fetish, and horny amateur photographers don't seem to care at all what a model looks like as long as she's willing to spread her legs or wear whatever tacky outfit (Gladiator helmet and lingerie?? Really?) they want her to wear. Regardless, you're more likely to find photographers who are more than happy to pay for your look; you just have to ask yourself if the quality or style they want to shoot you in is worth the pay they're going to give you. Some models don't care how awful the photos in their portfolio are, as long as they either got paid and got the opportunity to call themselves a "Professional model." Others set a standard of quality they're willing to shoot nudes for. Basically, their dignity is more important than the almighty dollar. So, where do you stand in the beauty spectrum? Do you think you have the kind of face that people will pay to photograph (i.e. Kathy Ireland, Blake Lively, Julia Roberts, Jennifer Garner, etc.)? Or were you just one of the better looking girls at your high school? If you don't have one of those faces, then don't expect a lot of paid gigs. It's just like college sports; good enough isn't good enough, you have to be in the top 1% to make the big bucks. If you add SOME nude work (Which is well within your comfort level), then you might get more opportunities to get paid work. You have to decide where your limit is and only work with people whose work fits what you're looking for. Sep 27 22 01:51 am Link EdBPhotography wrote: Not quite true. Sep 27 22 03:34 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: I think you missed the part where I said you need to hustle because these people aren't going to go out of their way to seek you out. Sep 28 22 01:11 am Link EdBPhotography wrote: That part is accurate, not only with modeling but just about any profession or business. The more you market yourself the more chance you have at success. EdBPhotography wrote: That's not really a fair question because I rarely hire models (click the highlighted link to see why). Most of the body paint models in my portfolio were hired by the company that I subcontract for. With some exceptions they normally are hired to be painted to be sent to conventions, trade shows, parties, promotions and events to attract attention for the clients, and quite a few of them are somewhat plain looking without the body paint and prosthetics. Sep 28 22 03:20 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: I get where you are coming from, but I think that you are missing a huge point, tall and attractive models can also go to casting for commercial projects and often do. Some models have different agencies for fashion and commercial work. There is not an upper height limit on commercial projects. What is probably more salient is that fashion models likely have more experience in front of a camera, more photos to show in a portfolio and more past experience/connections with photographers and casting entities than strictly commercial models. If you think that fact is not weighed in a casting decisions, I really question whether you have actually been a party to them. Sep 28 22 03:58 am Link Dan Howell wrote: Thanks for your input. Sep 28 22 04:19 am Link Dea and the Beast wrote: Are you back in the States??? Sep 28 22 07:10 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: I would be willing to bet most photographers here on MM don't hire "Ordinary" looking models very often. It's not really my field, but my guess is a lot of the models you see on ads and product boxes weren't picked by the company. Instead, the images were likely picked from stock photography sites. Sep 30 22 12:09 pm Link |
