rightwingzealots wrote:
In summation, various rants, lies, half truths, and finger pointing, without accepting any accountability.

Yes, without a doubt, Harris should be standing down on the southern border dealing with the problem in person, because in any well run country, the leadership never, ever, delegates tasks to the various departments of the government and the professionals that work in those departments.  Never you mind that maybe, just maybe, congress has some responsibility to fix this.  The responsibility they have had through administrations run by both Democrats and the self-serving party that would rather not address it because it provides cheap labor- which helps keep their green fees down and provides money for businessmen that hire undocumented people to create profits that can be contributes to their campaign coffers.

You ask us, but, to what significant figure can you accurately recite how many illegal immigrants are coming across the southern border for each month during the last 20 years?  Hell, why not go back to when Reagan (you know, that RHINO from the 80s?) gave people here without the permission of the Federal Government, a path to citizenship?  Then, please provide the data that would be required to address all of the people coming and overstaying their visas through other means of entry like the airports.  When you respond, you may look the numbers up prior to presenting them, since you have access to the real numbers, you should use them.  Then present the numbers in a comprehensive and understandable format.

We don't need to know the precise daily numbers to be aware there is a problem.  That is asinine.  We all know the system is broken.

I challenge our colleagues to provide arrival times for the hundreds of loads of migrants being delivered to northern cities by the ethically challenged governor's programs.  It would take about 10 seconds to goggle and find phrases regarding the migrants sent by the southern miscreants arriving at night.  But hey, let's not let right winged nut job lies and propaganda go to waste- may as well perpetuate them, right?  Moreover, why bother to provide facts and engage in reason.  This isn't a term paper or a place to pursue a debate based on facts and reason.  It is a propaganda shit fest where the faithful of the fanatic get to demonstrate their fealty to mendacity!

Are there logical reason that the administration might be dispersing people across the country into smaller cities and towns and to use night time arrivals, that are not nefarious, as the rightists would have us believe?  Is it possible that the destinations are relative to the services required being available and ready in those locations?  Is it possible that there may be some jobs available in small towns and cities where the population is declining because the current generation of the current inhabitants get out as quick as possible?  Is it possible that flight times are allocated according to available arrival and departure slots?  Would those slots be more available at night and would the task of processing a plane load of people and forwarding them to their next destination, be less disruptive to a very busy airport at night?   No, this can't be.  Cruelty is required! 

Perhaps our colleague is suggesting that commercial flights, with bought and paid for slots, should be left circling and delayed so these government actions can be conducted during the light of day?  We all know that there is never any evidence of malfeasance and only the daylight makes mischief discoverable.   I am sure our colleague is asserting such a solution so that they would then have another irrational complaint to moan about.

Does it matter to migrants if they are arriving in the depth of the night if their needs are being met?  Do you think it might matter more to the migrants that are being deported to fictitious addresses and destinations that have been misrepresented, to find themselves no where near assistance, much less the housing and jobs they were promised and which do not exist? 

Does the press write only about stories which occur in the daylight?  Or, perhaps, the press is smarter than the people that depend on getting information from less reputable sources and the press can write about crimes that occurred, even in weird places, like the basement of a golf course clubhouse, bu interviewing witness and law enforcement?

Has American leadership declined so far that the leadership, who is being subsidized and assisted by the United States Government and the taxpayers of the country, should adopt an attitude, of "we'll show you?"  "If we are going to suffer, we will make other people suffer."  Without regard to the fact that the people suffering are the people they have been charged with helping and have been receiving tax dollars to provide those services?  This party that claims to respect life so much has a tendency to dump human beings on the side of the road to fend for themselves.  There is something philosophically wrong there.  But, what else can be expect from the right besides abject cruelty, hate, a lack of empathy and a lack of values.

Have the ethics of Americans subsided to such a point that these horrid and cruel actions are tolerated?  How many of us would be outraged if our daughter or granddaughter was left on the side of road by her boyfriend to fend off the cold and find shelter and food when she has no idea of where she is and what to do next?  No worries.  There will be a truck load of drunken young men coming by soon enough.  They will help her.

Not surprisingly that the arguments that have been presented in the preceding posts by and for the uninformed rightists have been based on lies and cherry picked data.  It really should be a requirement here that people must substantiate their claims.  Their lies would wither on the vines if they had to put in the effort to tend to them.  But their right to tell lies shall not be impeded.

It would also be really cool if the rightist that bitch about these problems would offer up solutions that are consistent with the law, human decency and the treaty obligations of the United States, which would make significant and long term change.  Despite all their complaining, I notice this herd of political toadies fail to provide references to the Republican bills delayed in congress that would solve the problem.  If they would discuss these proposed changes, then we could discuss the suicide provisions the right puts in the bills to assure that no progress is made.  Maybe all of you that think Putin is doing a good job, could advance bills similar to Putin's methods of conscripting minorities, including recent immigrants, and put them on the front lines somewhere in the next war ya'll start.  Be sure to send them without adequate training and equipment, of course. 

But, like the ethically challenged southern governors, it is much easier to take the easy way out under the guise of highlighting a problem, only to find that they are also highlighting the problem of how they, the Republican party, and a large number of our Faux Christians are nothing more than cruel, inhuman people.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I am not equating immigrants to criminals behavior, I gave 3 separate examples of things that will have tipping points.

climate
immigration
crime

although I do tend to think that if someone comes over here who is illegal, and undocumented there would be a leaning towards possibly having to do illegal things out of desperation. so the Biden/liberal concept puts their lives in danger twice. making think "all we gotta do is get over to america and get in and life is sweet!" and then they get here and the sad reality kicks in and they might do things that put their lives in danger via criminal endeavors on top of the long dangerous slog to get here.

I see your other point about immigrants and the economy.....there are PLENTY of immigrants who are going thru the process the correct way! I am talking about illegal immigrants.

"although I do tend to think that if someone comes over here who is illegal, and undocumented there would be a leaning towards possibly having to do illegal things out of desperation."  Which ought to be motivation to be sure the resources are in place to decrease their desperation, or not?  Much as it would make sense to address the root causes of crime in our society instead of acting in response?

"someone ... who is illegal?"  Are you serious?  Do you ever consider your words?

"so the Biden/liberal concept puts their lives in danger twice."

Likewise, wouldn't it have made sense to work to maintain and improve the stability of the governments in the source countries and work to reduce crime in those places so that the people didn't feel the need to flee?  Why then did Republicans do the opposite?  To cut ties instead of working through things?

You may not have noticed but actions outside of our borders have consequences inside of our borders.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKCN1TI2C7
https://apnews.com/article/north-americ … 0f75ef4077
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKBN25K12T
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … e-house-us
https://www.ft.com/content/cfbba6bf-3de … 2fb958a354
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/p … llies.html
And on and on, .... "so the Biden/liberal concept puts their lives in danger twice," is an irrational statement and the product of poor information.

"that's a failure of leadership."  I will agree.  Republicans have accountability regarding that, too.  Remember trump's big, beautiful wall was all about stopping illegal immigration from one source.  Republicans should be accountable for that failure.  Billions wasted on a wall that has not stopped the flow or stemmed the flow.  Which can be expected since other trump actions (see above) increased the flow.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I am not equating immigrants to criminals behavior, I gave 3 separate examples of things that will have tipping points.

climate
immigration
crime

although I do tend to think that if someone comes over here who is illegal, and undocumented there would be a leaning towards possibly having to do illegal things out of desperation. so the Biden/liberal concept puts their lives in danger twice. making think "all we gotta do is get over to america and get in and life is sweet!" and then they get here and the sad reality kicks in and they might do things that put their lives in danger via criminal endeavors on top of the long dangerous slog to get here.

I see your other point about immigrants and the economy.....there are PLENTY of immigrants who are going thru the process the correct way! I am talking about illegal immigrants.

Climate is the real "tipping point' we have to worry about.

Immigration? What would a "tipping point" in immigration mean, EXACTLY? America literally overrun with ILLEGAL immigrants? Immigrants filling parks, streets, public areas, abandoned buildings...Seriously? Yeah, you probably are.

Crime? Well, have to agree. Maybe we are two election cycles away from the trump crime organization completely taking over the country, with the willful and enthusiastic support from your ilk.

"Biden/liberal concept puts their lives in danger twice. making think "all we gotta do is get over to america and get in and life is sweet!"

"making think"?? Are you having a cognitive malfunction, Tony? .I know it must be sad to have your own body undermine you when you need it to perform,

But seriously, how old are you? Twelve? Show some examples of this sophomoric and asinine assertion. And BTW, not that you care, the conditions in some of the countries immigrants come from are pretty horrific, and even a country as cruel to immigrants as the US has been looks "sweet."

And if you are still worried about tipping points, chew on this:

TEXAS GOES PERMITLESS ON GUNS, AND POLICE FACE AN ARMED PUBLIC

"A new law allowing people to carry handguns without a license has led to more spontaneous shootings, many in law enforcement say."

"“It seems like now there’s been a tipping point where just everybody is armed,” said Sheriff Ed Gonzalez of Harris County, which includes Houston."

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I mean, seriously....children have sex reassignment surgery puberty blockers?    The people coming up with YOUR policies are certifiably insane.

Just an FYI Tony...

There's a completely disproven fake story circulating on the right claiming the 5 year olds can take a long list of sex changing hormones, puberty blockers or get sex reassignment surgery.  If you check all the major news fact checker articles, it's just not true.  Period.

While it's strongly advised against for anyone under 18, there is a very strict requirement for those that are already in puberty (and no, puberty does not start at "5 years old"), have proven themselves to be fully aware of all of the implications and give their consent (and they must be judged as truly being mature enough to really give informed consent).  Plus they must have lived publicly as if the change had already happened for at least a year to make sure they truly understand the implications.  EVEN THEN, it's strongly recommended as being only a "social transition" until they are really old enough.


AND BEFORE YOU FALSELY BLAME BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATS, *** THIS ACTUAL POLICY WAS EXACTLY THE SAME UNDER TRUMP ***.


You get the idea Tony.  It turns out to be more completely false bullsh*t.  We keep hoping that you will learn to do some very basic fact checking before repeating these (oh so easily checked) complete lies.  It reflects really badly on you and the views that you promote, every time people realize that you've posted something, yet again, that turns out to be completely false. Especially when it's so easily checked.

You might want to think about that...

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
well seeing as the SANTUARY destination of Marthas Vineyard received them they made sure to "relocate" lmao as many of them as fast as they could. see I saw the "fact check" on that on CNN how they said,  FALSE  they werent rounded up and deported "as Republicans said"....and just like people could see thru "special military operation" we can see thru the "relocated" excuse.
.

Not sure what garbage dump you get your information from:

ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD, VENEZUELAN MIGRANTS AND ISLANDERS BID FOND FAREWELLS

https://www.wbur.org/news/2022/09/16/ma … d-cape-cod

"The group of Venezuelans unexpectedly forced to stay on Martha's Vineyard departed Friday, bidding an emotional farewell to the islanders WHO OFFERED THEM IMMEDIATE SUPPORT in a fast-moving political saga.

Many of the nearly four dozen migrants said they felt grateful as they prepared to board one of three charter buses to catch a ferry to mainland Massachusetts.

"God bless all of you," one of the men said, raising his hands in gratitude, as he boarded a bus. "

You see, Tony, you do not know the meaning of "sanctuary city". Big surprise. It does not mean a city will accommodate any number of immigrants beyond its ability to do so.. It means it will not share information with Federal immigration agencies, while still turning over those who have committed serious crimes, WHICH IS LEGAL. You see, Tony, being an undocumented immigrant IS NOT A CRIME, no matter what your ill-informed ilk think.

"and lastly, no I am not 12...but....I digress."

Really? Prove it. Post something not pre-adolescent. Or at least true.

rick lesser wrote:
Sometimes I found he would exaggerate,sometimes I thought, son of a gun, he is right.  Regardless I never let information that seems off or guestionable to go with out trying to research it. And I will dig. .

So in all your diligent digging you only found Trump to be sometimes exaggerating and sometimes right, but never outright lying? That is remarkable. Out of curiosity, what did your research tell you about Trump's claim he won the 2020 election? Was that right, an exaggeration, or a lie?