Dea and the Beast wrote:
only there's nobody left worth talking to

It's a matter of perspective.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

It's a matter of perspective.

The silence of the (non) contributions from models is deafening, isn't it.

Nat the droid wrote:
Dude lol I have mostly a whole portfolio of new images since unretiring in January

I just log in here every few days to browse US castings. It's really not that serious

You are a wonderful model to work with. You are listed in my MM profile as one of best models I've ever worked with, you know that, right?  People often compliment your pictures that are in my portfolio.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
The silence of the (non) contributions from models is deafening, isn't it.

You and I have had great communication on here as evidenced in our past messages and cordial comments to each other on this site going many years back.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:
People will always find stuff to rant and complain about, regardless of how people address stuff or any proposed solutions.

Back in MM's heyday, which I'd generally identify as 2007-2012 or so, people still complained about all those things. We just turned them into a laughing stock back then, and had online drinking games with our MM buddies, while watching threads go down in flames.

It was a far more lighthearted time.

So, ultimately, I'd agree with Nat on the "chill out" approach.

I think the only REAL solution to the issue we've all been dealing with is that someone needs to start a different site, with a very functional app, geared towards the art photography community. Model Society tried to do that, but it doesn't have the community feel that MM used to have, and most of the only communication I ever got on my model profile over there was from people in Europe. There doesn't seem to be a lot of loquacious American presence on it or something. As a community, it doesn't work well.

The arts photography community needs a Reddit.

We need community again, and MM no longer provides that. MS provides some nice features, but was never a community type place

Thank you so much for your positive contributions to this site.  I agree with you that there is room for another website in the near future. Perhaps we can build it together.

Nat the droid wrote:
Ok the three of us really need to do a tour and/or I'll host you up in Boston 🤣

I'd freakin' love to tour as a model again. I thought maybe that could happen this year, but it won't be until next year - due to a variety of reasons.

I'm in process of building a website and doing some other stuff that will free up more time for me, and let me refocus on being a full time creative. It's just taking a lot more time than I thought it would, to make that possible.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you so much for your positive contributions to this site.  I agree with you that there is room for another website in the near future. Perhaps we can build it together.

There is definitely a WAY to create a new place that caters to contemporary needs, and offers a real community to the arts photography world. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do that. I mean, MM and OMP were both highly influential. Both petered out, and nothing has come in to scoop up the community as a unit. Yes, Facebook and IG has scooped up a LOT, but those are extremely general platforms and they do not cater to the specific needs of models, photographers and folks that operate in a very niche aspect of the arts.

Nat the droid wrote:
I blocked you for trauma dumping in my DMs, and Modelphilia for giving the unsolicited "have you tried yoga". I would rather read Brother's Karamazov for fun.

Basic understanding of consent and boundaries.

Since you and "Dea and the Beast" are two of the most active models posting on the forums, I felt like there might be an exchange of empathy.  I'm sorry if I was mistaken. 

You and "Dea and the Beast" are the only two people on this website that I ever opened up enough to tell what I went through as a child. The number of people I've shared that with can be counted on one hand.  So I did not write and send that with intentions of causing any offense or emotional harm to you. Again, I'm sorry I crossed the line of "basic understanding of consent and boundaries" of telling you something extremely personal about myself.   I trusted you, and still do. You and everyone else I encounter on this journey called life will always have my best wishes.  That much will not change.

Childhood trauma certainly changes who we become as adults. 
We are all human beings with more in common than not.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Bc you scared everyone else away, and Nat The Droid and I just do not gaf or worry about our careers here.. we can say, nay, repeat ad nauseum what models have been screaming at all y'all for years.

I deleted your email without opening it, I didn't extend an invitation for you to use Me as a therapist.


Pretty much what Nat said.

I am so close to rage quitting this site every other day because of the stupid shit you keep perpetuating, particularly excusing and defending bait and switch tactics and predatory behavior.

Thank you!   I don't need you as a "therapist."  Based on our previous private messages, I thought it would be okay, although I don't know you in person, I still think of you as a potential friend.

Accusing me of "stupid shit you keep perpetuating, particularly excusing and defending bait and switch tactics and predatory behavior" directly is miscommunication. Please, I would like you to stay and point out where you see that happening, in particular with anything I've written.  As for your accusation of me scaring people away, that does not make sense as I have avoided logging on to MM and participating in the Forums for at least 3 years or more as I have been homeless .. I'm certainly NOT the reason the forums slowed down.  I have not "scared" anyone away.

Keep pointing out hostile posts, please!  What ideas do you have that might bring back models to the forums.  Also I cannot be the only photographer here that you make accusations towards, meaning that I'm not responsible for driving people away from the forums.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
What ideas do you have that might bring back models to the forums.  Also I cannot be the only photographer here that you make accusations towards.

Some prolifically-posting MM models seem to enjoy these kinds of exchanges as a blood-sport, and are only "happy" when they have thought up yet another nasty comment to make to or about a photographer. It is obviously not worth yours or anyone else's time to attempt to have a normal conversation with them. They don't enjoy any such well-meant interchange, and will do their best to find some "clever"-to-them riposte that will somehow publicly dig a knife into your side. Time to find a happier place and pastime. There's a better world out there that is not populated with verbal sadists trying to score points.

Nat the droid wrote:
I have a team of like a dozen doctors so I don't see why you found it appropriate.

It's called "kindness" or, out here, "Aloha".

Look it up for further information.

Modelphilia wrote:

It's called "kindness" or, out here, "Aloha".

Look it up for further information.

This is what I mean about y'all not minding your business or boundaries.

Unless all that's between me and a single hour of a day below a 8 on the pain scale is a fucking TEETER whateverthefuck i have a GENETIC FUCKING DISORDER my spine is degenerating faster than the California coastline! There's no cure, it's just a matter of trying to slow down the deterioration!

Maybe if I do some YOGA or roll on a FUCKING POTATO

And I'm from Boston so I'm not passive aggressive I'm just aggressive

Now if YOU TWO SPECIFICALLY AND ESPECIALLY don't have a hobby like i don't know knitting or GO THE FUCK TO THE BEACH YOU'RE IN HAWAII and log the hell off once in a while and just want to brainstorm on a website with garbage UI and functionality more foot traffic, this is akin to being the figurative man that doesn't wash their ass and wonders why their girlfriend won't you know what

I came into this thread being happy woo-woo because I can't browse castings for 2 minutes before my brain gets bored I pop in the forums to see if I'm still on the front page, and now y'all have me pissed!

Stay the hell out of my inbox on a networking site unless it's related to booking me for a shoot or checking a reference!

I already have 3 houseless neighbors praying over me to walk again, the only time I've walked without a cane since November is the other day I smoked something way too strong and I left my cane at the store and made it two blocks before the very nice lady that works there thought she witnessed a goddamn miracle when I came back again! I've already posed for a sadly departed artist i posed THOUSANDS OF HOURS for think that I was secretly a monk! I think he licked his cadmium red brush instead of smoking his pipe by accident a few too many times in his lifetime, somewhere there is a larger than life painting looking like a pure cadmium red monk that looked demonic when you walked by it in the middle of the night! I'm a damn hoot and was the only model Sylvie's cat wanted to shoot with a model, EVER! I can't believe I took a single step up the stairs without a cane let alone walk TWO WHOLE BLOCKS! This young man at the store must have thought I was a goddamn cancer patient!

Oooh boobitty boo I didn't cause the dying down of the site because I was homeless DO WE REMEMBER THE COVID

I was working in hospice and elder care before my body rapidly deteriorated and I got to be the fall risk that gets the special Boston red socks to where while admitted, she was absolutely a seasoned nurse having me convinced it was because I was special and not because I was a fall risk myself with a stoke follow up appointment! I am so frustrated that it is not professionally appropriate to write shift notes and consult PCP for potential adjustment of medication! I took little old grandmas to their doctors appointments and made the wide-eyed healthcare to healthcare face that we haven't slept or eaten sitting down for way too long! And this is what you choose to spend your time doing!

If my body still worked, that's what I would be doing right now! Sitting with someone's nana all day and singing her favorite song when she gets confused and really, you're going to tell me I'm a horrible sniping model or whatever?!

I want to teleport back to whatever planet I got beamed down from because I can deal with the humans in the sunsets of their life cycle, i can't deal with the living! Half of my body has moderate neuropathic pain and the other half i barely feel! My neurologist was giving me the safety pin test and didn't believe i was that numb and went a bit too hard and drew blood!

This is so silly! There are so many more important things! Why am I wasting my breath!

I already live with one guy that needs a Spock handshake but at least it's better than my last apartment where somebody tried to blow the house up! If that isn't the most "i live where whitey Bulger used to live" occasion, I don't know what is!

I can......... LOG OFF! Maybe look that up!

Take a look, it's in a book with your should-be-watching-Reading-Rainbow level of emotional and social awareness. If i can learn what flirting is beyond a theoretical level by arranging platonic dates back when craigslist had an adult section and literally bringing a yellow legal pad to interview people on what flirting is, i have great faith in you guys!

Also, nice is not the same as kind. You're thinking of nice. I am a very kind person but go ahead, enjoy your forums! I'm going to stick to enjoying my Antarctica timeshare with my new penguin family. They're all art students and I'm posing for them 10:30-8 tomorrow, i have to go press my tuxedo if I'm going to have any hope of blending in.

I'm sure this thread is still going to be on the front page for time immemorial so I have no reason to post!

Modelphilia wrote:
Some prolifically-posting MM models seem to enjoy these kinds of exchanges as a blood-sport, and are only "happy" when they have thought up yet another nasty comment to make to or about a photographer. It is obviously not worth yours or anyone else's time to attempt to have a normal conversation with them. They don't enjoy any such well-meant interchange, and will do their best to find some "clever"-to-them riposte that will somehow publicly dig a knife into your side. Time to find a happier place and pastime. There's a better world out there that is not populated with verbal sadists trying to score points.

Writing is a form of communication that has flaws, and issues depending on how good or poor a writer is. I'm not going to go into my own experience as a writer, but let's just say that it is extensive. If we were speaking on the phone, or meeting each other in person, it would be a completely different experience.  Even speaking in person as a form of communication has its flaws, but at least it gives more information than writing depending on the abilities of those doing the writing or speaking and the comprehension of the receiver of that information.  Communication is often misunderstood. That is why I wrote this post in the first place.

You are making an assumption that those "prolifically-posting MM models" enjoy confrontation?  I disagree with you!  Someone lashes out for various reasons, perhaps from emotional pain or anger. Perhaps they are looking for support?  Maybe they are blowing off steam?  I believe they want to be heard. It does not mean they get enjoyment from being confrontational. It might be quite the opposite.   

Writing as a "blood sport?"  Men are more likely to be aggressive with their words, most especially on the "talk radio" that was huge in the 1990's and now is podcasting. I know of male talk show hosts who take verbal "blood sport" to a higher level.  On Facebook when someone calls me names or attempts to bully me, it is far more likely to be from a man than a woman.  However women are getting more assertive, and I like to see that.  Women have been told to be silent for too long.

"Scoring points" is also a male aggressive term related to "blood sport" .but it's okay.  Let them get their jabs in, it does not hurt me. I doubt very much that it makes them "happy."   The vast majority of people on this website do not know each other personally. I don't know you personally, yet you are telling me "It is obviously not worth yours or anyone else's time to attempt to have a normal conversation with them."  STOP!  You don't know me. You do not get to tell me what is or is not worth my time, so don't.

in general, I am a very happy person. If I post in here, it's my personal choice, and I am happy with that. It doesn't mean that I don't get disappointed or depressed at times, but that's on me and no one else.  No one is responsible for my happiness except me. 

Yes, spread kindness!  It is different from being nice.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:
I'd freakin' love to tour as a model again.

You should stop by. Bring your juicer.

Nat the droid wrote:
I'm not passive aggressive I'm just aggressive

Nat, I am sorry that my attempt to pass along some information regarding a device I am using to try and ease my own debilitating back problems went so far astray of its intent. I certainly never wanted to offend you. And I now also know that our situations are not similar enough for you to be a likely candidate for using that device.

For the record I also repeatedly stated that, while I didn't know the full nature of your physical afflictions, IF there was any similarity between our conditions, then you might find it helpful. I never recommended any of my other practices to you, and only related what else I had tried that DIDN'T work well enough.

I hope that you can find some relief from your physical pain, and that you can keep your responses to its severity and difficulty from so negatively influencing the tone of so many of your previous postings.

Best wishes to you.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Communication is often misunderstood. That is why I wrote this post in the first place.
. . .
Yes, spread kindness!.

Patrick, have you ever heard this old joke about liberals:
      Q: How do you define a liberal?
      A: A liberal is someone who won't even take their own side in an argument.

That seems to be your modus operandi in your post-mortem of my previous post to you.

At least your heart seems to be in the right place at the end though so "RAVE ON!"

Modelphilia wrote:

Patrick, have you ever heard this old joke about liberals:
      Q: How do you define a liberal?
      A: A liberal is someone who won't even take their own side in an argument.

That seems to be your modus operandi in your post-mortem of my previous post to you.

At least your heart seems to be in the right place at the end though so "RAVE ON!"

Congratulations!  From your most recent comment above to Nat, I think you are really getting this post. Seriously, I mean this in a good way! 

I like that joke!  You are starting to "get" me too.  When I was on the High School Debate Team, we were taught to be ready to argue either side. That is rather standard training for early law students which might be why we have so many old politicians who sway back and forth on issues. 

Being either a liberal, conservative or moderate, I'm not a fan of either the past President, nor the current one. Actually I do not like what the leadership from either side is doing in Congress, and I find the more recent appointments to the Supreme Court very disappointing. The division between the two main political parties is harming our government. In the very near future,  I look forward to seeing more minorities, people of color and women leading this already great Nation. 

Having grown up in an incredibly diverse family, I am supportive of voting for the person rather than the political party. My own parents were of the Greatest Generation, yet they differed with regards to their politics, religion, and age.  They were also the best teachers I could ever had been blessed with. It was such a great honor to be their caregiver in their last years.

AgX wrote:
You should stop by. Bring your juicer.

Probably next year, honestly. I'm working really hard this year to make that possible for 2024.

I miss my old life. If I can manage to get a cheaper living situation ("The rent is too damn high!") in the next few months, I'm going to start looking for a proper studio and re-expand my photography business, which will give me much greater freedom.

When I say that I've been working hard the past few years, that's an understatement.


By the way: I will NEVER forget that conversation we had about Cracker Barrel. 

We encapsulate this conversational style in the simple acronym H.E.A.R.:

H = Hedge your claims, even when you feel very certain about your beliefs. It signals a recognition that there are some cases or some people who might support your opponent’s perspective.

E = Emphasize agreement. Find some common ground even when you disagree on a particular topic. This does not mean compromising or changing your mind, but rather recognizing that most people in the world can find some broad ideas or values to agree on.

A = Acknowledge the opposing perspective. Rather than jumping in to your own argument, devote a few seconds to restating the other person’s position to demonstrate that you did indeed hear and understand it.

R = Reframing to the positive. Avoid negative and contradictory words, such as “no,” “won’t” or “do not.” At the same time, increase your use of positive words to change the tone of the conversation.

From;
https://theconversation.com/to-have-bet … ing-201612

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you!   I don't need you as a "therapist."  Based on our previous private messages, I thought it would be okay, although I don't know you in person, I still think of you as a potential friend.

Accusing me of "stupid shit you keep perpetuating, particularly excusing and defending bait and switch tactics and predatory behavior" directly is miscommunication. Please, I would like you to stay and point out where you see that happening, in particular with anything I've written.  As for your accusation of me scaring people away, that does not make sense as I have avoided logging on to MM and participating in the Forums for at least 3 years or more as I have been homeless .. I'm certainly NOT the reason the forums slowed down.  I have not "scared" anyone away.

Keep pointing out hostile posts, please!  What ideas do you have that might bring back models to the forums.  Also I cannot be the only photographer here that you make accusations towards, meaning that I'm not responsible for driving people away from the forums.

You don't seem to understand that life is not fair. In your head you're a saint. When people don't like saintly you, its best to think "I'll move on like a gracious swan. Oh no, there's a bear. I better fly." All you've done is make some people not like you and its best to leave them alone. I know you're a saint and everything but you don't need them and they don't need you.

LA StarShooter wrote:
You don't seem to understand that life is not fair. In your head you're a saint. When people don't like saintly you, its best to think "I'll move on like a gracious swan. Oh no, there's a bear. I better fly." All you've done is make some people not like you and its best to leave them alone. I know you're a saint and everything but you don't need them and they don't need you.

Whatever gave you the idea that I "don't seem to understand that life is not fair?"  You don't know me or the many struggles I've had to overcome just to stay alive.  No, life is not fair.  Each and everyone of us is fortunate to be born, and we make the best of what we've been given.  The struggles we all go through hopefully make us stronger if they don't kill us. I understand that there are people who have it far worse than me.  'It's Okay' as NightBirde sang before her life was cut short by cancer.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZJvBfoHDk0

"You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy." 

That said, I ain't no saint! I was a challenge for my parents.  I was wild in my 20's and 30's. Then in my 40's after having a change of heart, then the best 8 years of my life, then nearly nearly dying .. I then committed 18 years to caregiving for my parents, and my big brother who have all passed away. My parents, and my big brother and his wife really "got me" .. my brother's wife died of cancer, in which he was her caregiver in her last days. It's not just my flesh and blood family, but I have seen loving friends pass away.  Some of the photographers and models I knew in real life, some of  whom used to post on these forums here have passed away. That is why I've been harping about how short life is, and how we've got to make the best of it.

About people not liking me, you are correct!  There are people in my own family who do not like me.  There are a few former "friends" who can't stand me, but mostly it's because of miscommunication. Having people who don't like us, or even hate us is something that we all have to live with. I'm trying to mend bridges with those family and friends before I die, but I am powerless to change people's minds towards me.  I accept that, but I have to at least try. We only get one life, and so I'm going to give as much love to others as I can without expectation.

We don't "need" anyone, but we want people in our lives. I've been known to be a bit too much to take, especially in my younger days, but I have always been passionate about writing since I was 5 years old, and then the arts such as photography and music shortly after that. It's what I live for.  Speech and debate are also fun for me. If you are interested in what I hope will help people think more logically about arguing, check out the link below. Life is too short for fussing and fighting my friend.

https://theconversation.com/to-have-bet … ing-201612

Al_Vee Photography wrote:
By the way: I will NEVER forget that conversation we had about Cracker Barrel. 

Cracker Barrel is my archnemesis. ;D

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I've spoken to Pat several times and found to be a decent intelligent guy.  While, I won't respond to any poster directly.  It's important to not take or make things personally.   I struggle today to apply this life lesson in my life.

Thank you!  I appreciate you!

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Over the years I would say its single digits of models that even knew that MM forum.

Well it seems that Nat the droid and Dea and the Beast were the only two posting and I've unfortunately scared them off.  I've tried making posts proclaiming how awesome the models are, but they seem not interested. Many models have complained about photographers posting in the Model Colloquy ..  so what can we do to bring more models to the forums??

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Well it seems that Nat the droid and Dea and the Beast were the only two posting and I've unfortunately scared them off.  I've tried making posts proclaiming how awesome the models are, but they seem not interested. Many models have complained about photographers posting in the Model Colloquy ..  so what can we do to bring more models to the forums??

No, you Annoyed us off.
Huge difference.

Dea and the Beast wrote:

No, you Annoyed us off.
Huge difference.

So glad you are back!  This place is dead without you. Yes, I know some people find me annoying.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

So glad you are back!  This place is dead without you. Yes, I know some people find me annoying.

I'm leaving the site, finally.

You're a big reason why.

I hope you're happy. You'll get your own entire 'networking' site just for your insane journaling and circle jerking. Yay!