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Saying no
A question for women models, reasons below. How do you effectively turn down a photographer’s request to shoot you again after a session where you felt uncomfortable? A model friend introduced this concern in conversation and I suggested that others may have faced the same challenge. My empathy is genuine but being neither woman or model my understanding can simply never be complete. That said I offered to ask others for their thoughts and report back to her with methods that worked. So, women models of MM, what suggestions do you have? Thanks. Jun 04 23 02:45 pm Link rGlenndonShoots wrote: rGlenndonShoots wrote: Just say "No". Jun 04 23 03:48 pm Link Mark Salo wrote: - For better or less that catchphrase didn't really catch on outside of standup comedy because its super simplistic nature is simply ineffective. Jun 05 23 03:52 am Link I notice that models don't always participate in the forums. For reasons, of course. Open invitation: If you're a model that's faced a similar situation, found a solution that works but don't want to reply here, for reasons, feel free to hit me on my IG. Thanks Jun 05 23 04:02 am Link I don't think of "No" as a catch phrase. I hope that the model won't feel compelled to insult me. I don't figure that it has anything to do with buying gasoline. The book is available on Amazon. I'm really not plugging it, I've never read it and I doubt that my wife has read it either. Jun 05 23 05:37 am Link Just say "no!" If only communication were that easy. Jun 05 23 12:21 pm Link Your first 3 words immediately brought to mind the failed anti drug ad campaign. A slogan where actual study and comprehensive, in depth solutions were needed. Not strangely but perhaps arguably, more long term harm than good resulted. Just last week I just said no to a model’s request for a shoot. Bad vibes. She simply didn’t respond. But just maybe allow that the chances of some level of negativity is more likely where genders are switched. While you and many of us won’t beg or harass the model several others might and do that and more. Every day. That is her very legitimate concern, especially given the vibes at her only other shoot with that photographer. I don’t carry that concern. I don’t fear the 2am gas station in the “valley of the shadow of death”-sic. Because I’m the baddest MF in the valley. Lol, couldn’t resist. But you see my point, yes? While mindless abuse of males by female perps does exist and should not be trivialized, the reverse is arguably more prevalent (sorry I don’t have numbers for that well accepted …fact). So, call it male privilege. Maybe. But it makes the knee-jerk male solution of less value than one coming from someone in the same shoes as she. Btw- I misread you, thinking your wife was the author. Apologies. Forum chat is not my native language. I tend to say too little or too much. One-one conversation is my home. C’est la vie… Here’s hoping for a model’s voice on the subject Jun 05 23 01:04 pm Link rGlenndonShoots wrote: You are the one who titled your post "Saying no" and I agree that it is a failure. Jun 05 23 01:44 pm Link Patrick Walberg wrote: I did. It is. Though my my reply wasn’t intended to be an attack. Jun 05 23 05:19 pm Link rGlenndonShoots wrote: I understand that you meant not as an attack. Communication can be "preempted" when someone thinks they already know what is meant before the true meaning is realized. As a photographer, I wish to listen to the models and by staying out of Model Colloquy or at least acknowledge models. When there are so few people posting, I continue to post in hopes of getting them to come back. Jun 05 23 08:45 pm Link Jun 06 23 06:06 am Link rGlenndonShoots wrote: Please, repeat this. On every platform you use. When we scream this at the people who need to hear it, they ignore us. Jun 06 23 06:08 am Link Yeah... "Just say no" totally works and I don't have multiple burner numbers "just in case", am vague about where I am and when with the exception of a few trusted people. That was very extreme sarcasm. My mom taught me a secret code word and to always carry coins in case I needed to use the payphone to let her know some guy was following me. My grandma used to sneak attack me to see if I could defend myself and get out of a headlock. When I was a child. Having a network of models to check references with is good, but not perfect. I've had people use me as a "good reference" and went on to assault other models. There's no simple answer but I appreciate you asking OP. Jun 06 23 06:09 am Link I was a pro level arts and glamour model for more than a decade. This is my photographer account, as I'm now a photographer primarily. But, I am female and I started out as a model. I'd just politely decline and say something like, "Unfortunately, I'm already booked up for this trip through your city/state, but I hope you have a wonderful day and thanks for reaching out!" You really don't need to say anything else. I had a few bad experiences over the years, but it was extremely uncommon. I let other traveling models know about my experiences with those individuals, so they could avoid them. That being said, I never made an issue about anything except the rare instances where someone behaved in a WILDLY inappropriate fashion. I once had a photographer walk around with his privates hanging out of his pants and he was touching himself. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, kept my eyes straight ahead and hoped he'd get the message and that situation might have "never happened." I'd have let it go entirely. But, then he asked me straight up if I'd sleep with him. At that point, I knew it was a situation where I needed to let others know this individual was just gross. Stuff like that only happened maybe 5ish times, in something like 12 years. It's rare, but if someone is just straight up nasty with you, warn others. Jun 06 23 09:25 am Link Nat the droid wrote: You’re right, there really is no simple one size fits all answer. But thanks for the awareness and preventive steps Nat. Jun 07 23 01:51 pm Link rGlenndonShoots wrote: Oh she was still going strong surprising me in the aisles at Walmart a year before she passed lol Jun 07 23 03:14 pm Link Nat the droid wrote: I'm sure I would've liked your G-Ma! People should Live the kid inside as long as the flesh outside allows. Jun 07 23 05:34 pm Link The model has the right to choose. If the model is uncomfortable, has she thought of bringing an escort along on shoots? IF the money paid by this photographer is beyond average and hard to pass on. you might check to see if he allows a friend to be present, silent and out of the way during the shoot. Much depends on how eager a model is for making money if the photographer is known for paying big time But your personal comfort and choice do come first. Best of luck Jun 08 23 07:30 pm Link A lot of photographers might not like this response (judging from threads I've seen in the past), but my go-to in the situation is to not answer at all. If a photographer made me VERY uncomfortable, I've usually blocked them altogether. In the rare event that they get back in touch, I simply ignore the message. Jun 09 23 08:41 pm Link To be HONEST .... I do not think the model "should" explain themselves as to why ... This "could" give a ""bad vibe" kind of person a chance to change tactics on the NEXT person .... IF you as a model didn't "feel right" ,, then do NOT give any reason that they could adapt for the next "victim" I am fine knowing that models can and SHOULD ask other models how a certain person was to work with ...... ( Yet, models should know that ANY online contact could / might actually be the "wrong" person to be talking to ) Jun 28 23 07:19 pm Link Liv Sage wrote: Just want you to know that I greatly appreciate your input. You just might be the only model actively using the forums. With a membership here where photographers out number the models 3 to 1, I'd think that everyone would be nicer to models. However the forums have become a deserted, haunted shadow of itself from the early days. It is a FACT that you are not obligated to respond! Jun 29 23 05:56 pm Link Adventure Photos wrote: I don't really like "escorts" on shoot locations. I'm perfectly happy with voice-activated reflector holders, lens carriers, lookouts and equipment holders. My wife comes along to hold reflectors, help scout new locations, and be helpful - and no one has complained. Jun 30 23 09:28 am Link The answer to that is easy, and it is "no thanks". That's all you need to say. Yes, ZERO response, is STILL highly unprofessional behavior. You should always have the courtesy to reply, at least "no thanks". Rick Sep 08 23 01:55 pm Link |