Erin Koski wrote:
Let me find the image I'm seeing as submitted Feb 18, 2023 to compare to the one above.

Feb 18th submission: https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/374306
Image link from above: https://photos.modelmayhem.com/contest/ … 16-big.jpg

Let me know if you are seeing something different from the past contest and this recent DQ.

Here is the contest page for the first image:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … ups/230219

Yes, indeed I am, I went back and checked the image that was submitted for the third ("second time" according to your infallible records) time and DQ'd on it's last appearance, it is dated (2-6-24) and doesn't match the image you show as being DQ'd  .  .  .  I'll happily send it along to you if you'd like  .  .  .  just as an aside, what part of the "anus" or "anal canal" was deemed visible in the version of the image you DQ'd, as that particular part of the DQ'd image is shrouded in shadow and at an angle that would make it highly unlikely that any of those offending "parts" could be visible  .  .  .  could it be that "someone's" imagination mistook a fold of skin, or darker shadow in a shadowed area for something it wasn't?  Each time your team attempts to explain their rulings, it just makes the "rules" less and less clear!

SOS

Some of us haven't had the same "no points given" experience that you have Mr K (check my posts earlier in this thread, same exact image entered three times, deemed unacceptable on the third time, 5 demerits awarded)  .  .  .  annoying seems to be an understatement at best  .  .  .  I also saw your entry in the other thread about the ballet teacher image (nicely done, beautiful image) and the explanation provided about the modesty panel, mind numbing is the only description that seems appropriate for the Mods actions!

SOS

KenPhoto wrote:
I learned long ago to get every image I submit pre-approved. If you know you can do this, I'm not sure why anyone would complain that they got penalized for having an image removed. Just email every image to [email protected] before entering them to make sure they're okay.

It truly seems incredulous that the Mods bemoan being overwhelmed with "work" (as to managing the images in the contests), but then turn around and tout using a pre approval process (which according to your experience is far from foolproof), then an approval process for the same image to go into a particular contest, thus doubling the "work" required  .  .  .  obviously they're sorely remiss in their collective understanding of ergonomics  .  .  .  simply review the images that are sent in for a particular contest, then either allow them in, or don't  .  .  .  seems so elementarily simple, "don't" it!

SOS

sospix wrote:
Some of us haven't had the same "no points given" experience that you have Mr K (check my posts earlier in this thread, same exact image entered three times, deemed unacceptable on the third time, 5 demerits awarded)

So, the image I recently had removed had been in the contest five times since the rules change before they decided it was "too much" for the 18+ contest and removed it. They still asked me if the image had been "pre-approved", meaning I'd asked if it was okay before I entered it in the contest the first time. I had, and I was able to point to the exact date and email subject of when I'd had it approved. If I hadn't done that, my guess is they would have still given me points even though it had been in the contest five times, because I hadn't gotten it pre-approved.

So, as to your image that had been in the contest previously, it seems ridiculous, I agree...but if it wasn't pre-approved before ever entering it in the contest in the first place, I think they give points even if it's "slipped by" them multiple times.

sospix wrote:
It truly seems incredulous that the Mods bemoan being overwhelmed with "work" (as to managing the images in the contests), but then turn around and tout using a pre approval process (which according to your experience is far from foolproof), then an approval process for the same image to go into a particular contest, thus doubling the "work" required  .  .  .  obviously they're sorely remiss in their collective understanding of ergonomics  .  .  .  simply review the images that are sent in for a particular contest, then either allow them in, or don't  .  .  .  seems so elementarily simple, "don't" it!

SOS

So, I believe it's just one mod who does the pre-approval (mod7). I believe he's the only one who runs the [email protected] email account. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the case. So the pre-approval is really only extra work for him and if that's a main part of his job, I think he's able to handle the workload. He encourages people to get shots pre-approved, so I assume that means he does have the time. It has taken him a couple days to get back to me at times, so I'm guessing his workload varies from day-to-day.

When the entire team of mods who run the contest get a chance to look at the images that are entered, that's when they may collectively "overule" mod7's decision to allow an image. At least, this is my understanding of how it works. The mods can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

KenPhoto wrote:

sospix wrote:
Some of us haven't had the same "no points given" experience that you have Mr K (check my posts earlier in this thread, same exact image entered three times, deemed unacceptable on the third time, 5 demerits awarded)

So, the image I recently had removed had been in the contest five times since the rules change before they decided it was "too much" for the 18+ contest and removed it. They still asked me if the image had been "pre-approved", meaning I'd asked if it was okay before I entered it in the contest the first time. I had, and I was able to point to the exact date and email subject of when I'd had it approved. If I hadn't done that, my guess is they would have still given me points even though it had been in the contest five times, because I hadn't gotten it pre-approved.

So, as to your image that had been in the contest previously, it seems ridiculous, I agree...but if it wasn't pre-approved before ever entering it in the contest in the first place, I think they give points even if it's "slipped by" them multiple times.

So, I believe it's just one mod who does the pre-approval (mod7). I believe he's the only one who runs the [email protected] email account. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the case. So the pre-approval is really only extra work for him and if that's a main part of his job, I think he's able to handle the workload. He encourages people to get shots pre-approved, so I assume that means he does have the time. It has taken him a couple days to get back to me at times, so I'm guessing his workload varies from day-to-day.

When the entire team of mods who run the contest get a chance to look at the images that are entered, that's when they may collectively "overule" mod7's decision to allow an image. At least, this is my understanding of how it works. The mods can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The whole pre-approval and points system is non-sense. It's easier just to not enter anything and let these poor overworked mods sift through the 10 -15 entries they get each day...oh the horror!

Erin Koski wrote:
The process is as follows, for those curious:

If an image is sent for review first, it's almost always the main image mod (Mod 7) who reviews.  I occasionally review them, but usually Mod 7 sees them before I do.   The moderator reviews the image and either responds promptly with a yay or nay or takes the image to the team, posting whatever quick-link will take the team to view the image and give their feedback.

The contests are more formal things and there is more "paperwork" to do about them.

Mod 7 is usually the main mod setting up the formal review each day.  If Mod 7 is unavailable someone else on the image team is assigned for that day.
The formal set up involves reviewing the entries for the three contests. Ideally this is done before ~5-6am so the rest of the team has time to review them before afternoon resolution. The mod then documents which images are either not allowed, or borderline and warrant review.  Each image in this category gets documented with the account that submitted the image, the contest date/link it was submitted to, the image URL and the contest submission page URL.  Finally, the rule broken or in question is documented.  Once that's been done for the three contests, the rest of the image team reviews and gives feedback on all the images, agreeing or disagreeing and pointing out any nuances or further questions.  The image team also scans over the entire contest submissions for the day to see if there are any additional images they think the team should review together and if so, bring those up.  That needs to be done by early afternoon (my time anyway).

Once the team has reviewed the images, Mod 7 (or the alternate for that day) goes through the process of making the final call on any images where the team didn't unanimously agree, and goes through the formal disqualification process in the system, including sending the proper notification to the member, updating any points counts and adding any additional information needed to the member with the disqualification. 

So I'm not trying to wo-is-me or us, but it's a lot more work to remove an image from the contest than it is to pre-review an image and that's why we recommend pre-approval and are not likely to change our stance over to just not caring if people submit images that are against the rules to the contest.

Thanks for the lengthy explanation. Apparently the whole process is even a few more steps than I'd thought. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to us.

Erin Koski wrote:
The process is as follows, for those curious:

If an image is sent for review first, it's almost always the main image mod (Mod 7) who reviews.  I occasionally review them, but usually Mod 7 sees them before I do.   The moderator reviews the image and either responds promptly with a yay or nay or takes the image to the team, posting whatever quick-link will take the team to view the image and give their feedback.

The contests are more formal things and there is more "paperwork" to do about them.

Mod 7 is usually the main mod setting up the formal review each day.  If Mod 7 is unavailable someone else on the image team is assigned for that day.
The formal set up involves reviewing the entries for the three contests. Ideally this is done before ~5-6am so the rest of the team has time to review them before afternoon resolution. The mod then documents which images are either not allowed, or borderline and warrant review.  Each image in this category gets documented with the account that submitted the image, the contest date/link it was submitted to, the image URL and the contest submission page URL.  Finally, the rule broken or in question is documented.  Once that's been done for the three contests, the rest of the image team reviews and gives feedback on all the images, agreeing or disagreeing and pointing out any nuances or further questions.  The image team also scans over the entire contest submissions for the day to see if there are any additional images they think the team should review together and if so, bring those up.  That needs to be done by early afternoon (my time anyway).

Once the team has reviewed the images, Mod 7 (or the alternate for that day) goes through the process of making the final call on any images where the team didn't unanimously agree, and goes through the formal disqualification process in the system, including sending the proper notification to the member, updating any points counts and adding any additional information needed to the member with the disqualification. 

So I'm not trying to wo-is-me or us, but it's a lot more work to remove an image from the contest than it is to pre-review an image and that's why we recommend pre-approval and are not likely to change our stance over to just not caring if people submit images that are against the rules to the contest.

I can easily solve your problem of this seemingly overly complicated process you've described (if it takes that long to simply explain it, no wonder it doesn't work in practice), check my post a few posts above  .  .  .  one look, one decision, yay or nay, move on  .  .  .  the lengthy explanation you've posted of the current process makes me think this must be a government project, it's the only way something so simple could have possibly devolved into the morass it's become  .  .  .  let KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) be your (collectively) mantra moving forward, that way #7 can take that lllllloooooonnnnnnngggggg vacation they so obviously are in need of!

SOS

Tikeya wrote:

This