Studio NSFW wrote:

A publishing company would certainly have picture editors on it's staff, and so there would be a possibility of getting into a dispute with them over how the pictures should look in the book, they might insist on your deferring to their judgement even if you didn't like what they were doing. I do have fifteen years experience of editing pictures on computers and I usually know how I want my pictures to look.

Sometimes I will experiment in editing to get a result I like, which may be technically "wrong" with oversaturated or desaturated colours or too dense, but if like it I'll use it.

In pictorial photography as opposed to technical photography, the final appearance of the image on the printed page is always a matter for subjective judgement, so it is creative process, because there is no right or wrong in an absolute sense.

Studio NSFW wrote:
It’s neato that you found a website that lets you play with layout and will let you twiddle knobs on an RGB monitor tho. Maybe with another 10 iterations of your masterwork it will look like what you think it should.

While there is no reason why you couldn't print 10 successive photo books, each with corrections and changes if that's the way you wanted to do it, an experienced person will probably need three or four. That gives you the opportunity to experiment a bit with the design and arrangement as well as fine-tuning the individual images. I think there does come a point where you have to finalise things if you want to retain an element of spontaneity.

JSouthworth wrote:
Does anyone publish Photo books any more?

Gavin Hardcastle ( [email protected] ) is currently about to release his second book.

Mark Salo wrote:
Gavin Hardcastle ( [email protected] ) is currently about to release his second book.

So it seems;

https://www.fototripper.com/

Hardcastle has also made an HD video tutorial entitled Photoshop for Morons v2, which I'm sure will be of great interest to morons everywhere.

I noticed a few years ago that most of the UK photography magazines were publishing a lot of articles on landscape photography, before they went into receivership. Some people in publishing tend to get a headache or a panic attack if they have to think about anything which could be controversial or have socio-political implications.

JSouthworth wrote:
... which I'm sure will be of great interest to morons everywhere.

So now JSouthworth attacks Gavin Hardcastle, continuing his tradition of attacking the work of other photographers.  More specifically, those that are far more accomplished and successful than himself.

Once again, please feel free to compare JSouthworth's portfolio (posted here on MM) to Gavin's body of work, and come to your own conclusions.

LightDreams wrote:
So now JSouthworth attacks Gavin Hardcastle, continuing his tradition of attacking the work of other photographers.  More specifically, those that are far more accomplished and successful than himself.

Once again, please feel free to compare JSouthworth's portfolio (posted here on MM) to Gavin's body of work, and come to your own conclusions.

I like Gavin Hardcastle's landscape photographs. I would say that they are two thirds of a step removed from reality, I think they show things as they might possibly look on a tab or two. Some people might interpret that as a negative, but I don't intend it as such. They remind me of paperback book covers I've seen, also of Thomas Kinkaid's painting.

https://www.fototripper.com/

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ;FORM=VIRE

JSouthworth wrote:
At moment I can offer the book for £85.00 including shipping within the UK, the cost of shipping to the US will be about £27.00. If you email me at [email protected] I will give you a precise quote and payment details.

£112.00 (inc S&H) is a fantastic opportunity to view Southy's work.

JSouthworth wrote:
Here's the latest version for comparison;

https://www.bonusprint.co.uk/view-onlin … 22915addbf

They are not really very different, but the latest one is definitely an improvement.

There are some limitations to how much you can do with the text in the Bonusprint app, I have made some suggestions as to how they could improve it in this respect. It isn't too much of a problem with a photo book.

Overall I think the latest version has quite a good balance, there's something for everybody. Your comments are welcome.

If Bonusprint UK make any changes to their app which allow further improvements, particularly with regard to the arrangement of the text I will probably take advantage of that, otherwise I will leave it as it is for the time being. Eventually there may be a second edition or even a completely new book.

JSouthworth wrote:
Here's the latest version for comparison;

https://www.bonusprint.co.uk/view-onlin … 22915addbf

Overall I think the latest version has quite a good balance, there's something for everybody. Your comments are welcome.

If you're serious about wanting comments on your personal pet project you need to post that link and request it in the Critique Forum.

JQuest wrote:

If you're serious about wanting comments on your personal pet project you need to post that link and request it in the Critique Forum.

Maybe you need to lighten up a bit.

Adventure Photos wrote:
Yes, to publish a book is very costly these days.

It shouldn't be. Publishers should pay people like me for the right to publish our work, then they could make money and retain some credibility instead of having to repeatedly recycle stuff from the 1970s.

Adventure Photos wrote:
But I can't get over my wonderful introduction to top notch enticing and colorful works of David Hamilton.  I bought three of his hardcover 'coffee table' sized books back in the early 70's, when they were about 30 bucks each and that was a whole days pay.   Thus I do still enjoy a good model book with a theme.  Most I see these days run at least 75 bucks,,hardcover only.

David Hamilton was certainly well known at one time for his romanticised, soft focus glamour work, I have books that include some of his work. He was accused by French presenter Flavie Flament of raping her in 1987 when she was 13, other former models made similar accusations against him and he ended up committing suicide in Paris in 2016;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hamilton_(photographer)

Adventure Photos wrote:
In summer and up to Labor Day of 2022, a certain photographer here at MM was taking tons and tons of photos for what he said would be probably a few books, but one called 'alpha women' was his biggie.   A model I knew did hundreds of photos for him.   And when I asked him about when it might come out. how much a copy...well he disappeared.  But turned out he just blocked me here and from his webpage (still says 'under construction' 188 months later).    I wonder if he just made it up, enticed models into the shoots but never intended to print a book.  Never ever found a clue on it under his real name.   Not even Amazon books has any knowledge of he man.    So I call out a true fake or cheat for sure.  Probably just sold pics of girls off to Bentbox or some other online seller.    Such a shame, and a disgrace to true professional photographers who dont tell lies or block you when you ask something simple.

188 months, so that's 15 years and eight months and we're still waiting? I recently approached Amazon to ask them whether they might be interested in selling my book, but apparently they don't sell books themselves unless they're books that have been created using their own book creation app which isn't suitable for photo books, only for text based books.

Alpha Women is a cool title I think, that would tend to get peoples' attention.

Right now I'm awaiting delivery of the print copy of the latest version of Girls on Film;

https://www.bonusprint.co.uk/view-onlin … 22915addbf

When you order a print copy, you also get an e-book version at no extra charge, on request which is good I think. You wait a couple of hours for the e-book, about 10 days for the print copy.

JSouthworth wrote:
Overall I think the latest version has quite a good balance, there's something for everybody. Your comments are welcome.

JQuest wrote:
If you're serious about wanting comments on your personal pet project you need to post that link and request it in the
Critique Forum.

JSouthworth wrote:
Maybe you need to lighten up a bit.

Did you or did not ask for for comments on your project in a forum that by the rules of this site does not allow for that to happen? Perhaps you should lighten up when people are actually trying to assist you on your stated goal of welcoming comments on your vanity project?

Once again though for the record and your benefit, if you want members to comment on your work you need to request that in the critique forum. Perhaps a mod could make that more clear for you?

Studio NSFW wrote:
Serious publishers actually have a “pre-press “ person whose job is to tune files to the specific paper stock being used….you only need to give them a good starting place with a properly prepared file.

If you are not working on a calibrated monitor set for Print Standard display, and outputting correct CMYK metadata to .pdf format…you’re just spending way to many  cycles in quality control without the process control steps that the printing industry actually uses for consistent, quality results

The term Prepress applies to the stage of publishing which immediately precedes printing;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepress

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishing

Employing a person to adjust image files to paper stock might seem like a good idea, but it introduces another "vote", another person whose judgement will affect the appearance of the final image, increasing the risk of the end result becoming a compromise "committee product" that ultimately fails to meet anybody's requirements.

My way of doing things may take longer, but it gives me complete control and with experience I'm now getting good results from fine-tuning individual pictures, without the need for specialised hardware/software.

Conversion to PDF (Portable Document Format) is something that the online book creation apps take care of automatically I think.

JSouthworth wrote:

The term Prepress applies to the stage of publishing which immediately precedes printing;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepress

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishing

Employing a person to adjust image files to paper stock might seem like a good idea, but it introduces another "vote", another person whose judgement will affect the appearance of the final image, increasing the risk of the end result becoming a compromise "committee product" that ultimately fails to meet anybody's requirements.

My way of doing things may take longer, but it gives me complete control and with experience I'm now getting good results from fine-tuning individual pictures, without the need for specialised hardware/software.

Conversion to PDF (Portable Document Format) is something that the online book creation apps take care of automatically I think.

Holy Shit. You seriously don't know what you are talking about. You are clearly incapable of seeing the glaring error in your logic. What is funny is how sure you are of your flawed workflow but too scared to put the results out for critique. What do they call that? Paper Tiger? Seems pretty fitting here.

Dan Howell wrote:
Holy Shit. You seriously don't know what you are talking about. You are clearly incapable of seeing the glaring error in your logic. What is funny is how sure you are of your flawed workflow but too scared to put the results out for critique. What do they call that? Paper Tiger? Seems pretty fitting here.

When I have the latest version of the book printed I may well post a link to the e-book version in the critique section. In the meantime you have this one to check out;

https://www.bonusprint.co.uk/view-onlin … 22915addbf

A problem we have here is that you can only see the e-book version, not the printed book, unless you buy one of course. So you can't see for yourself how well or badly the pictures are printing, you have nothing to base your criticisms on as far as that goes. What I'm trying to do in this thread is basically to describe the experience of creating a book using an online app, obviously my impressions are bound to be subjective to some extent.

The e-book linked above is not very different from the latest version but some pictures (eg pages 21, 71) have been re-edited with a bit more contrast.

Sometimes you find that if you re-edit one picture, you have to re-edit the one on the facing page to avoid a mis-match, so I have re-edited the picture on page 20 as well, made it more dramatic.

Dan Howell wrote:
"Employing a person to adjust image files to paper stock might seem like a good idea, but it introduces another "vote", another person whose judgement will affect the appearance of the final image, increasing the risk of the end result becoming a compromise "committee product" that ultimately fails to meet anybody's requirements. "

This, for anyone who is unsure, is bullshit.

No, it's simple logic. The more people are involved in designing or editing something, the more it becomes a compromise, that's obvious as is the fact that collaborate efforts tend to restrict individual creativity in this context. There are some things that can only be done on a collaborative basis, but designing and editing a book is something I can do myself.

Modern technology now makes it possible for much of the work in the pre-press stage of traditional publishing to be either omitted or done automatically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepress

Your inability to recognise levels of sinecurism in the publishing industry is laughable, and the other thing you need to understand is that their priority is on predictability, not quality or creativity. Although in the end I think their current risk-aversiveness will backfire on them, when people get tired of the same old thing year after year.

LightDreams wrote:
This argument will be very easily settled.

The number of books sold to the general public will tell the story.  The commercial publishers either know what they're doing, or they don't.

Their emphasis is on short term profits, and their basic problem is that complete predictability in terms of income from sales can only be achieved at the expense of absolute tedium. Because when they plan their books four or five years ahead they have no flexibility, no ability to respond to rapid cultural changes.

LightDreams wrote:
JSouthworth claims that the commercial publishers don't know what they are doing and he does.

The bottom line sales numbers of his book will be definitive on that.

Think of it as a very simple case of "put up or shut up".  No excuses allowed.

So put up or shut up.

JSouthworth wrote:
A problem we have here is that you can only see the e-book version, not the printed book, unless you buy one of course. So you can't see for yourself how well or badly the pictures are printing,

Serious question:
If the printed versions include the deep wrinkles, fold marks and stains that appear on the backdrops and sometimes the models too (as the e-book displays) does that mean the publisher is good or bad?

LightDreams wrote:
JSouthworth.  You're honestly going to use Robert Frank as an example?

The funny thing is that he is trying to compare a high-end offset to the relatively low-end digital printing and doesn't even know it.

I wonder how many people are just waiting for him to drop that link in the critique forum? I'm pretty sure we know why he hasn't.