Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

Thanks, maybe they should take it down and do an update then. Everything is changing, they need to change this tradition as well-meaning not letting only tall skinny models rip the runway. America is full of thick women, there are only a limited full of tall skinny women that want to be models. Soon people will get tired of seeing the same models.

Just to let people know that is a myth about skinny models work best because it looks as if the clothes are on a hanger. A big no, no!!!

I am sorry but if I cant see how good it looks with a much thicker body, I will not buy that clothing line. The fashion designers are going to learn someday, that all their doing is losing potential clients. With the economy being the way it is, they may want to change their runway tradition. IJS...

They aren't going to change the fashion industry no matter what you think,  but you're welcome to try

Images by MR wrote:

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Thanks, maybe they should take it down and do an update then. Everything is changing, they need to change this tradition as well-meaning not letting only tall skinny models rip the runway. America is full of thick women, there are only a limited full of tall skinny women that want to be models. Soon people will get tired of seeing the same models.

Just to let people know that is a myth about skinny models work best because it looks as if the clothes are on a hanger. A big no, no!!!

I am sorry but if I cant see how good it looks with a much thicker body, I will not buy that clothing line. The fashion designers are going to learn someday, that all their doing is losing potential clients. With the economy being the way it is, they may want to change their runway tradition. IJS...

They aren't going to change the fashion industry no matter what you think,  but you're welcome to try

And paying attention to the message's dates would be nice too.  But she definitely isn't going to have the slightest effect on the fashion industry, either.

Two words : wishful thinking.

aspergianLens wrote:

Images by MR wrote:

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Thanks, maybe they should take it down and do an update then. Everything is changing, they need to change this tradition as well-meaning not letting only tall skinny models rip the runway. America is full of thick women, there are only a limited full of tall skinny women that want to be models. Soon people will get tired of seeing the same models.

Just to let people know that is a myth about skinny models work best because it looks as if the clothes are on a hanger. A big no, no!!!

I am sorry but if I cant see how good it looks with a much thicker body, I will not buy that clothing line. The fashion designers are going to learn someday, that all their doing is losing potential clients. With the economy being the way it is, they may want to change their runway tradition. IJS...

They aren't going to change the fashion industry no matter what you think,  but you're welcome to try

And paying attention to the message's dates would be nice too.  But she definitely isn't going to have the slightest effect on the fashion industry, either.

Two words : wishful thinking.

I once had an husband who said I wasn't going to be nothing, and I was worth nothing. Separated from him 4 years ago and just got Divorced from him 2months ago...and I was in my first movie 3weeks ago, it comes out Sept 2014. I also entered into a talent contest for the summer, 20 out of 50 contestants got accepted, I was one of them, but I did not sign the contract. God is in control not man or women, NEVER SAY NEVER!!! There is always that 1 person that will do something different one day.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
I once had an husband who said I wasn't going to be nothing, and I was worth nothing. Separated from him 4 years ago and just got Divorced from him 2months ago...and I was in my first movie 3weeks ago, it comes out Sept 2014. I also entered into a talent contest for the summer, 20 out of 50 contestants got accepted, I was one of them, but I did not sign the contract. God is in control not man or women, NEVER SAY NEVER!!! There is always that 1 person that will do something different one day.

Doing something different is totally possible, but does not mean it will change "the industry."

There are plenty of types of modeling, and in non-fashion markets (and smaller or non fashion shows in other markets), plenty of girls outside the 5'10~ 105 lbs~ girls walk the runway. When a girl who doesn't fit the standards does well in that genre in a big market, she is seen as the exception.

Considering she IS the exception, it means the non-standard girls have very little chance of getting anywhere (as many who meet the standards still don't make it), but even if she DOES, it is unlikely to have any real affect on the fashion industry as a whole.

If a girl tries modeling and does not make a career of it, or chooses to do other things, it doesn't mean anything bad about the girl or that she is or will be nothing.

A word of caution, if you have ANY problems with being self-conscious still hanging on, tread VERY LIGHTLY with modeling. Sometimes it makes you feel better, and sometimes the critique and pressure can make you feel much, much worse-- especially when it's things you can't change. I hope this isn't overstepping any bounds, but this close to your divorce, please be careful.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
I once had an husband who said I wasn't going to be nothing, and I was worth nothing. Separated from him 4 years ago and just got Divorced from him 2months ago...and I was in my first movie 3weeks ago, it comes out Sept 2014. I also entered into a talent contest for the summer, 20 out of 50 contestants got accepted, I was one of them, but I did not sign the contract. God is in control not man or women, NEVER SAY NEVER!!! There is always that 1 person that will do something different one day.

I don't see what your ex-husband has to do with the topic of this discussion.  It's unfortunate that he was mean to you -- and it's good you got away from him -- but it has little to nothing to do with modeling, itself.

You may be able to be successful as a model, but you're not going to change the industry.  It just doesn't work that way.

You should listen to Kickham, she knows what she is talking about.

I have been Separated for 4 years, I have been seeking this industry since then. I have not just began this journey, so I know that this industry is hard. Just because I just Divorced has nothing to do with this. I know about when somebody says no, then you keep trying, go to the next person until you get a yes. I am doing this for my children, I have children to take care of. My regular job is not helping much, so I make myself available for castings as well. My regular job wont always be there as well, so that is why I am trying other industries. This has nothing to do with low self-esteem or a Divorce. I have people around me that truly loves me no matter if I fail. They said a black person would never be president and look how far history has come. So shorter-thicker models will become the new norm in history, just watch and see. God is in control.

But this the last of this post because I find negativity very annoying as well.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

Thanks, maybe they should take it down and do an update then. Everything is changing, they need to change this tradition as well-meaning not letting only tall skinny models rip the runway. America is full of thick women, there are only a limited full of tall skinny women that want to be models. Soon people will get tired of seeing the same models.

Just to let people know that is a myth about skinny models work best because it looks as if the clothes are on a hanger. A big no, no!!!

I am sorry but if I cant see how good it looks with a much thicker body, I will not buy that clothing line. The fashion designers are going to learn someday, that all their doing is losing potential clients. With the economy being the way it is, they may want to change their runway tradition. IJS...

As a big girl I have to say this is the kind of stuff that contributes to the war on women...
There are many reason why designers send standard sized models versus models who don't fit a catagory .Like seriously too many reason to count.Remember that the fashion industry is a BUSINESS and fashion shows are  filled with buyers,merchandisers,store owners,and other industry folk looking to buy clothes that look good to go into their stores!If a designer sent models who were 200lb and 5'3 ft down the runway the clothes would not have that good movement and buyers wouldn't buy stuff and that designer would lose money.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
quote]
Doing something different is totally possible, but does not mean it will change "the industry."

There are plenty of types of modeling, and in non-fashion markets (and smaller or non fashion shows in other markets), plenty of girls outside the 5'10~ 105 lbs~ girls walk the runway. When a girl who doesn't fit the standards does well in that genre in a big market, she is seen as the exception.

Considering she IS the exception, it means the non-standard girls have very little chance of getting anywhere (as many who meet the standards still don't make it), but even if she DOES, it is unlikely to have any real affect on the fashion industry as a whole.

If a girl tries modeling and does not make a career of it, or chooses to do other things, it doesn't mean anything bad about the girl or that she is or will be nothing.

A word of caution, if you have ANY problems with being self-conscious still hanging on, tread VERY LIGHTLY with modeling. Sometimes it makes you feel better, and sometimes the critique and pressure can make you feel much, much worse-- especially when it's things you can't change. I hope this isn't overstepping any bounds, but this close to your divorce, please be careful.

I have been Separated for 4 years, I have been seeking this industry since then. I have not just began this journey, so I know that this industry is hard. Just because I just Divorced has nothing to do with this. I know about when somebody says no, then you keep trying, go to the next person until you get a yes. I am doing this for my children, I have children to take care of. My regular job is not helping much, so I make myself available for castings as well. My regular job wont always be there as well, so that is why I am trying other industries. This has nothing to do with low self-esteem or a Divorce. I have people around me that truly loves me no matter if I fail. They said a black person would never be president and look how far history has come. So shorter-thicker models will become the new norm in history, just watch and see. God is in control.

But this the last of this post because I find negativity very annoying as well.

I am by no means saying your divorce has ANYTHING to do with your opinions here. I'm also not just talking about getting a "no" or a rejection. Sometimes it's really much harsher than that-- especially if you want to try to make it in a genre that's not going to want to accept you. I initially only saw the 2 month part, though, so I didn't realize you had so much distance.

There was no negativity in my post, only reality.

Potentially even a little bit of sugar coating on reality, really.

K I C K H A M wrote:
I am by no means saying your divorce has ANYTHING to do with your opinions here. I'm also not just talking about getting a "no" or a rejection. Sometimes it's really much harsher than that-- especially if you want to try to make it in a genre that's not going to want to accept you. I initially only saw the 2 month part, though, so I didn't realize you had so much distance.

There was no negativity in my post, only reality.

Potentially even a little bit of sugar coating on reality, really.

It's a waste of time.  You should see what she is doing in the Newbie forum.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=906555

Not exactly making a good account of herself, I'd say...

Alannah Jones Styling wrote:

As a big girl I have to say this is the kind of stuff that contributes to the war on women...
There are many reason why designers send standard sized models versus models who don't fit a catagory .Like seriously too many reason to count.Remember that the fashion industry is a BUSINESS and fashion shows are  filled with buyers,merchandisers,store owners,and other industry folk looking to buy clothes that look good to go into their stores!If a designer sent models who were 200lb and 5'3 ft down the runway the clothes would not have that good movement and buyers wouldn't buy stuff and that designer would lose money.

That's why store owners are going out of business now, because America does not have a lot of skinny people running around anymore. I have traveled from California to North Carolina, all I see is thick and big people. Every time I go into a store I see piles of clothes un-touched because the clothes are not in normal people sizes. Stores that has normal sized clothing have to get shipments in every week, compared to stores that only purchase clothes up to size 6.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

That's why store owners are going out of business now, because America does not have a lot of skinny people running around anymore. I have traveled from California to North Carolina, all I see is thick and big people. Every time I go into a store I see piles of clothes un-touched because the clothes are not in normal people sizes. Stores that has normal sized clothing have to get shipments in every week, compared to stores that only purchase clothes up to size 6.

retail, especially clothing, is an incredibly competitive market... stores go out of business even in the best of economic times, so seeing them close doors during what has been a prolonged economic recession is not exactly a surprise...

because of the cutthroat nature of the market, retailers will try anything and everything to boost their profits, or to stay in business... if, indeed, store after store found "regular" size merchandise constantly unsold, while "larger sized" clothing was flying off the shelf - they would adopt accordingly... business is about greed, and greed has no prejudice for size

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

That's why store owners are going out of business now, because America does not have a lot of skinny people running around anymore. I have traveled from California to North Carolina, all I see is thick and big people. Every time I go into a store I see piles of clothes un-touched because the clothes are not in normal people sizes. Stores that has normal sized clothing have to get shipments in every week, compared to stores that only purchase clothes up to size 6.

That's not why stores are going out of business,if anything our industry is growing!The fashion industry is one of the world's biggest industries and California the fashion industry employs more employees than any other industry.Just as there's bigger women there are thinner women.In fact America, has become more weight conscious!Don't you pay attention to all those #gym pics on instagram?lol.

PashaPhoto wrote:

retail, especially clothing, is an incredibly competitive market... stores go out of business even in the best of economic times, so seeing them close doors during what has been a prolonged economic recession is not exactly a surprise...

because of the cutthroat nature of the market, retailers will try anything and everything to boost their profits, or to stay in business... if, indeed, store after store found "regular" size merchandise constantly unsold, while "larger sized" clothing was flying off the shelf - they would adopt accordingly... business is about greed, and greed has no prejudice for size

So the runway shouldn't be prejudice as well, that is all I am saying. Case close, you cant make me think the industry isn't going to change. I already have my mind set and made up. You all really need to stop being negative, what is wrong with all you women, where is the woman power at. A long time ago women was not considered citizens and we could not even vote and now look at history. That's what is wrong with America always believing what man said. If you spend more time obeying the 10 commandments there wouldn't be no killing, stealing, and destroying. No one would be greedy in this world and the world would run smoothly.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
So the runway shouldn't be prejudice as well, that is all I am saying. Case close, you cant make me think the industry isn't going to change. I already have my mind set and made up. You all really need to stop being negative, what is wrong with all you women, where is the woman power at. A long time ago women was not considered citizens and we could not even vote and now look at history. That's what is wrong with America always believing what man said. If you spend more time obeying the 10 commandments there wouldn't be no killing, stealing, and destroying. No one would be greedy in this world and the world would run smoothly.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

So the runway shouldn't be prejudice as well, that is all I am saying. Case close, you cant make me think the industry isn't going to change. I already have my mind set and made up. You all really need to stop being negative, what is wrong with all you women, where is the woman power at. A long time ago women was not considered citizens and we could not even vote and now look at history. That's what is wrong with America always believing what man said. If you spend more time obeying the 10 commandments there wouldn't be no killing, stealing, and destroying. No one would be greedy in this world and the world would run smoothly.

there is no shortage of women working in the fashion industry, and some of the biggest brands are lead and managed by women...

again, it's an incredibly competitive industry that constantly tries to reinvent itself to stay on the cutting edge... the people in this industry are not stupid... if there was demand for larger catwalk models, then there would be larger catwalk models...  it's just that simple...

i admire your enthusiasm, and the go-getter attitude, but i feel that it's misguided...

simply put - this guy is also full of enthusiasm, and go-getter attitude

aspergianLens wrote:

The only dummy I see are all the people that commented, you all don't know your history, which is why I see why you all are models. Dumb to let some industry tell you what is or not accepted. If the President listened to people like you, he would never been president and still living check to check. You all let people tell you, what looks good and what don't look good, you all are retarded. Watch me do me, you all stay in your lane, let me show you all how to change history.

PashaPhoto wrote:

there is no shortage of women working in the fashion industry, and some of the biggest brands are lead and managed by women...

again, it's an incredibly competitive industry that constantly tries to reinvent itself to stay on the cutting edge... the people in this industry are not stupid... if there was demand for larger catwalk models, then there would be larger catwalk models...  it's just that simple...

i admire your enthusiasm, and the go-getter attitude, but i feel that it's misguided...

simply put - this guy is also full of enthusiasm, and go-getter attitude

That is not me, that is how you all look when people tell you no, you should look a certain way.  There is a shortage of models, why do you think they have those reality shows for you all?

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

The only dummy I see are all the people that commented, you all don't know your history, which is why I see why you all are models. Dumb to let some industry tell you what is or not accepted. If the President listened to people like you, he would never been president and still living check to check. You all let people tell you, what looks good and what don't look good, you all are retarded. Watch me do me, you all stay in your lane, let me show you all how to change history.

you know what - i'm with you... go do it... go change history...

when you're done reforming the female side, find me, and we'll go reform the male side... i want all the male runway models to be very short, overweight balding men win disturbing amount of chest hair... together, we can do it... yes, we can.... yes, we can

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

That is not me, that is how you all look when people tell you no, you should look a certain way.  There is a shortage of models, why do you think they have those reality shows for you all?

Those reality shows aren't realistic. And it's silly for you to say there aren't enough models out there because that isn't the case.

If you think those reality shows are for entertainment and 90% not realistic on how the modelling industry works. All of those "models" on that show don't become anything in the end, even most of the winners.

Countess Grotesque wrote:
lol, it's moments like these I love being an alternative model. When I am on the runway I can be any height, size, weight, shape, hair colour etc etc and as long as I am rocking the clothing look right, my job is done well.
I am considered 'plus sized' because I am a curvy girl even when I have been stick thin I looked extremely unhealthy yet I was the 'perfect' size for regular runway.
I am fortunate to be 5'11 tall... but alt is so much fun, we may not be 'supermodels' but we get to wear just as many avante guard, stylish, fetish, unique and very fun clothing (and yes, even high end fashion styles).
This whole thread debates or not, was to be honest an interesting read. Among some of the debate were some legitimate interesting questions and answers. But I do think some of these answers are almost just common sense or general knowledge. In saying that, I have been doing this for 11 odd years and I think it IS healthy for models to ask these questions if they don't know. Calling them 'dumb' is not right, uneducated in the industry is a better term, so kudos for people wanting to learn.

Thank you so much for some positivity, yes I am uneducated about the industry. Like I said look how long it took for America to let women vote, black people vote, or a semi-black president to be in office two terms. All I am saying is sometimes change is good, it does not matter how long it take for the change to happen. You cant tell someone they are dumb for trying to change something.

Erlinda wrote:

Those reality shows aren't realistic. And it's silly for you to say there aren't enough models out there because that isn't the case.

If you think those reality shows are for entertainment and 90% not realistic on how the modelling industry works. All of those "models" on that show don't become anything in the end, even most of the winners.

WHAT? You mean ... Jersey Shore isn't REAL?!

Erlinda wrote:

Those reality shows aren't realistic. And it's silly for you to say there aren't enough models out there because that isn't the case.

If you think those reality shows are for entertainment and 90% not realistic on how the modelling industry works. All of those "models" on that show don't become anything in the end, even most of the winners.

I never knew anything about an Toccara Jones and look where she is now. I cant remember the name of the plus-size model that died but she was featured in many movies, I did not know anything about her either.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

The only dummy I see are all the people that commented, you all don't know your history, which is why I see why you all are models. Dumb to let some industry tell you what is or not accepted. If the President listened to people like you, he would never been president and still living check to check. You all let people tell you, what looks good and what don't look good, you all are retarded. Watch me do me, you all stay in your lane, let me show you all how to change history.

This industry has exceptions to ever rule but it's rare and very hard to fit yourself in that small space.

The reason for tall skinny models on the runway is because it saves the designers money to not use to much fabric for their clothes as well as tall skinny models are kind of like hangers, make the clothes flow and hand a lot better then an average size women would.

The industry has been like this for a long time it's not their fault it's the consumers for liking what they see and buying into it. Don't blame us, blame the average people that want the life style they see in the advertising photos.

Nattan Pires wrote:
I'm not tall and I walked for LA Fashion Week last Tuesday. LOL
Sometimes there are a few exceptions for the rules. Never say never.

Now that is what I am talking about. Thank you, some more positive comments. Keep up the great work.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

I never knew anything about an Toccara Jones and look where she is now. I cant remember the name of the plus-size model that died but she was featured in many movies, I did not know anything about her either.

All you can name is one Model out of ohhhh I don't know 1000's of people that have been apart of so many reality shows.

Them getting a few jobs here and there isn't the same as being a super model. America's next top model should really be just that. But they aren't, once they are done they book some small jobs. Have you seen them on Prada ads? or H&M or Guess or whatever? No because that show isn't realistic.

Nattan Pires wrote:
I'm not tall and I walked for LA Fashion Week last Tuesday. LOL
Sometimes there are a few exceptions for the rules. Never say never.

LA Fashion week is a little different then NY,LONDON,PARIS,MILAN when you hit those cat walks then you've got something

Erlinda wrote:

This industry has exceptions to ever rule but it's rare and very hard to fit yourself in that small space.

The reason for tall skinny models on the runway is because it saves the designers money to not use to much fabric for their clothes as well as tall skinny models are kind of like hangers, make the clothes flow and hand a lot better then an average size women would.

The industry has been like this for a long time it's not their fault it's the consumers for liking what they see and buying into it. Don't blame us, blame the average people that want the life style they see in the advertising photos.

They still have to make the clothes very long so they are still using fabric no matter what. I also sew projects too so that was not an great example. The consumers were more slimmer and more conservative way back then.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

They still have to make the clothes very long so they are still using fabric no matter what. I also sew projects too so that was not an great example. The consumers were more slimmer and more conservative way back then.

I don't think you're actually listening to what Erlinda and the others are trying to tell you.

Erlinda wrote:

All you can name is one Model out of ohhhh I don't know 1000's of people that have been apart of so many reality shows.

Them getting a few jobs here and there isn't the same as being a super model. America's next top model should really be just that. But they aren't, once they are done they book some small jobs. Have you seen them on Prada ads? or H&M or Guess or whatever? No because that show isn't realistic.

Yes, because I don't let the world consume the majority of my mind. Why should I remember models are they going to help me when I am in a crisis. Nope all they will say too bad, thank God it is not me. I am making this a career for me and my family and not others.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

They still have to make the clothes very long so they are still using fabric no matter what. I also sew projects too so that was not an great example. The consumers were more slimmer and more conservative way back then.

Using fabric for long garments is a lot cheaper then using them for long and wide garments. I am telling you real facts of why designers use skinny tall models and you seem to think your way is right. You try making clothes for 20+ big tall models and see how much money you spend, then get back to me

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

Thank you so much for some positivity, yes I am uneducated about the industry. Like I said look how long it took for America to let women vote, black people vote, or a semi-black president to be in office two terms. All I am saying is sometimes change is good, it does not matter how long it take for the change to happen. You cant tell someone they are dumb for trying to change something.

Not a problem, I am seeing both views on this whole topic and I understand both view points completely. I do however have high hopes for change in the industry one day. And to say change wont happen IS simply ignorant....where were alt models 20 years ago? They were in bands only pretty much. Now we are everywhere. If weirdos like me with body mods all over my body with crazy arty pics can make a name for myself and keep getting work at age 29 even, I have hope for the future of all modelling for everyone. I may sound 'too' positive here, but hell, things change in the world all the time. It may take a very long time but who knows. The more people try to push the limits and boundaries the more open minded to change people become.

aspergianLens wrote:

I don't think you're actually listening to what Erlinda and the others are trying to tell you.

I hear you all, but the designers are not making their money when all of their clothes are always going on sale, so how are they saving on fabric, in that case they should use shorter skinny models. The industry does not make sense...but I am here to help them see their mistakes.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Yes, because I don't let the world consume the majority of my mind. Why should I remember models are they going to help me when I am in a crisis. Nope all they will say too bad, thank God it is not me. I am making this a career for me and my family and not others.

What???? You are letting reality shows consume your mind by believing in them as facts and real. Knowing who models are is important when you want to work in this industry. You don't have to know their life story but knowing models, designers, make-up artist, stylist, photographers etc is important to getting your career in this industry moving and going places. If you can't seem to understand why it's important then I don't see you going anywhere fast.

Doing this for your family is silly, I would say only a hand full of models make enough money to take care of themselves as well as there family. Modelling isn't a job you should be looking to making it big, models life in this industry last for about 1-3 years max then out with the old and in with the new.

The more you write to me the more it shows me you are clueless when it comes to this industry.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

I hear you all, but the designers are not making their money when all of their clothes are always going on sale, so how are they saving on fabric, in that case they should use shorter skinny models. The industry does not make sense...but I am here to help them see their mistakes.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
I hear you all, but the designers are not making their money when all of their clothes are always going on sale, so how are they saving on fabric, in that case they should use shorter skinny models. The industry does not make sense...but I am here to help them see their mistakes.

*LOL*

And who appointed you to be the one to point out their "mistakes"?

Countess Grotesque wrote:

Not a problem, I am seeing both views on this whole topic and I understand both view points completely. I do however have high hopes for change in the industry one day. And to say change wont happen IS simply ignorant....where were alt models 20 years ago? They were in bands only pretty much. Now we are everywhere. If weirdos like me with body mods all over my body with crazy arty pics can make a name for myself and keep getting work at age 29 even, I have hope for the future of all modelling for everyone. I may sound 'too' positive here, but hell, things change in the world all the time. It may take a very long time but who knows. The more people try to push the limits and boundaries the more open minded to change people become.

Sorry for being religious, but hallelujah is all I have to say. I love positive people.