Countess Grotesque wrote:

Not a problem, I am seeing both views on this whole topic and I understand both view points completely. I do however have high hopes for change in the industry one day. And to say change wont happen IS simply ignorant....where were alt models 20 years ago? They were in bands only pretty much. Now we are everywhere. If weirdos like me with body mods all over my body with crazy arty pics can make a name for myself and keep getting work at age 29 even, I have hope for the future of all modelling for everyone. I may sound 'too' positive here, but hell, things change in the world all the time. It may take a very long time but who knows. The more people try to push the limits and boundaries the more open minded to change people become.

I don't think change is impossible and shouldn't be challenged, I just think it's silly to blame the "industry" We give the consumers what they want. When people stop buying magazines and clothes because the models are too skinny thats when the industry will start moving in a different direction. But in all honesty you should be bitching to the chick on the train beside you for loving the magazines and ads with all the skinny girls in them because she is the one making it all happen!

aspergianLens wrote:

*LOL*

And who appointed you to be the one to point out their "mistakes"?

Other people have to make a living as well. People cant be prejudice about body type. I would love to order clothes from different designers, and I am sure some others feel the same. The truth is in actions, I can sit here and type what I will do all day, but the real beauty comes when the industry actually change.

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
1 John 3:18

Erlinda wrote:

I don't think change is impossible and shouldn't be challenged, I just think it's silly to blame the "industry" We give the consumers what they want. When people stop buying magazines and clothes because the models are too skinny thats when the industry will start moving in a different direction. But in all honesty you should be bitching to the chick on the train beside you for loving the magazines and ads with all the skinny girls in them because she is the one making it all happen!

Actually, she (almost) brought up an interesting point.  Why is it that designers don't use petite (short, thin) women for wearing their clothes? Seemingly, there could be a savings in materials by using small women.  Is it just because taller models look "better" on the runway?

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Other people have to make a living as well. People cant be prejudice about body type. I would love to order clothes from different designers, and I am sure some others feel the same. The truth is in actions, I can sit here and type what I will do all day, but the real beauty comes when the industry actually change.

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
1 John 3:18

You keep injecting your religion into this discussion.  It has no place here.

If you want quotes, then I have one of my own I like.

"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                                                          -- Kosh, Babylon 5

Erlinda wrote:

I don't think change is impossible and shouldn't be challenged, I just think it's silly to blame the "industry" We give the consumers what they want. When people stop buying magazines and clothes because the models are too skinny thats when the industry will start moving in a different direction. But in all honesty you should be bitching to the chick on the train beside you for loving the magazines and ads with all the skinny girls in them because she is the one making it all happen!

hehe, to be honest I think the chick on the train would buy the magazines regardless.
What is popular inevitably changes eventually.

Erlinda wrote:

I don't think change is impossible and shouldn't be challenged, I just think it's silly to blame the "industry" We give the consumers what they want. When people stop buying magazines and clothes because the models are too skinny thats when the industry will start moving in a different direction. But in all honesty you should be bitching to the chick on the train beside you for loving the magazines and ads with all the skinny girls in them because she is the one making it all happen!

The industry think that the person beside me wants to see extremely skinny females in the magazine, but sorry to burst yours and the industry bubble, that is not what they want to see. People buy magazines to read then they get thrown away. I have not bought nothing from the magazines I read. The industry is only making money because people that don't read much loves a quick story and they pick up a magazine to entertain themselves. They do not care if you are skinny or big.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
I never knew anything about an Toccara Jones and look where she is now. I cant remember the name of the plus-size model that died but she was featured in many movies, I did not know anything about her either.

Toccara Jones is 5'9"... she did get signed with Wilhemina Pllus after the show, and did appear in some print and some runway shows...

however, most of the print she appeared in was "urban", and her most memorable one was a very steamy spread in "King", where through the magic of photoshop she lost a few dozen pounds, at least on the cover...




and yes, she did walk some runway... but her runway credits are also all urban, and mostly promotional events... stuff like - Hot 97's Third Annual Full Frontal Hip hop Fashion Show... that's a great show to go to if you want to get shot... and i don't mean by a photographer

most importantly, after her initial burst, her modeling career started to fizzle... she started taking up wacky reality gigs, and eventually ended up on "The Celebrity Fit Club", where she came in with a goal to be at 180 pounds because "it was good for her career"...

at 5'9 and 180, she is still on a heavier side of plus, but at least she was "passable" for Wilhemina to keep her on the roster... and again, it's freaking Wilhemina plus, which not only has an insane amount of churn, but also is not known for being overly picky...

i'm not saying to this to put this girl and her accomplishments down somehow... one of my good friends is signed with that same agency, and in that same plus division, so i know how tough and competitive that market is... the churn is high, the opportunities are limited... once in a while some mag will run a feature on plus size models, and suddenly there will be some buzz, but it fades quickly...

around this time last year we were all talking about Katya Zharkova... she happens to be a very good friend and a former roommate of my friend from Wilhemina... so, i keep up with her... she's still riding the wave of publicity, and her career is going pretty strong, but the buzz that was generated by that publication is gone... it's just not there anymore, and has been forgotten...

so, it's not like there have been no attempts to bring larger models front and center... there are actually have been quite a few of them, and by some major publications to boot, but it just doesn't seem to go anywhere... the demand is just not there...

aspergianLens wrote:

You keep injecting your religion into this discussion.  It has no place here.

If you want quotes, then I have one of my own I like.

"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                                                          -- Kosh, Babylon 5

The uneducated still negative.

PashaPhoto wrote:
at 5'9 and 180, she is still on a heavier side of plus, but at least she was "passable" for Wilhemina to keep her on the roster... and again, it's freaking Wilhemina plus, which not only has an insane amount of churn, but also is not known for being overly picky...

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd even agree that 180lbs @ 5'9 is "plus sized".  I think a more honest term would be overweight.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
The uneducated still negative.

Excuse me? I have a realistic view of the fashion industry, unlike you, and you dare call me uneducated?

aspergianLens wrote:

Actually, she (almost) brought up an interesting point.  Why is it that designers don't use petite (short, thin) women for wearing their clothes? Seemingly, there could be a savings in materials by using small women.  Is it just because taller models look "better" on the runway?

They do look better but also taller models are easy to see for those in the way back of the fashion shows.

aspergianLens wrote:

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd even agree that 180lbs @ 5'9 is "plus sized".  I think a more honest term would be overweight.

supposedly, she was well over 200 when the King cover and spread was taken...

i already posted the cover... this is from the spread...

PashaPhoto wrote:

Toccara Jones is 5'9"... she did get signed with Wilhemina Pllus after the show, and did appear in some print and some runway shows...

however, most of the print she appeared in was "urban", and her most memorable one was a very steamy spread in "King", where through the magic of photoshop she lost a few dozen pounds, at least on the cover...




and yes, she did walk some runway... but her runway credits are also all urban, and mostly promotional events... stuff like - Hot 97's Third Annual Full Frontal Hip hop Fashion Show... that's a great show to go to if you want to get shot... and i don't mean by a photographer

most importantly, after her initial burst, her modeling career started to fizzle... she started taking up wacky reality gigs, and eventually ended up on "The Celebrity Fit Club", where she came in with a goal to be at 180 pounds because "it was good for her career"...

at 5'9 and 180, she is still on a heavier side of plus, but at least she was "passable" for Wilhemina to keep her on the roster... and again, it's freaking Wilhemina plus, which not only has an insane amount of churn, but also is not known for being overly picky...

i'm not saying to this to put this girl and her accomplishments down somehow... one of my good friends is signed with that same agency, and in that same plus division, so i know how tough and competitive that market is... the churn is high, the opportunities are limited... once in a while some mag will run a feature on plus size models, and suddenly there will be some buzz, but it fades quickly...

around this time last year we were all talking about Katya Zharkova... she happens to be a very good friend and a former roommate of my friend from Wilhemina... so, i keep up with her... she's still riding the wave of publicity, and her career is going pretty strong, but the buzz that was generated by that publication is gone... it's just not there anymore, and has been forgotten...

so, it's not like there have been no attempts to bring larger models front and center... there are actually have been quite a few of them, and by some major publications to boot, but it just doesn't seem to go anywhere... the demand is just not there...

That is why you learn how to do something else. She still walked the run way, is what I am getting at. She is famous and still getting paid. Who says runway is all I will be working on. I am about to receive my hair license, and I am doing castings as well. I will start to do hair on-set as well. I am a DSA at my regular job, and I am attending school on-line for Business Management. Like I said I am working on changing things.

Erlinda wrote:

They do look better but also taller models are easy to see for those in the way back of the fashion shows.

I thought that might be a reason.  Thanks.

aspergianLens wrote:

Excuse me? I have a realistic view of the fashion industry, unlike you, and you dare call me uneducated?

You called me uneducated earlier. Doesn't feel good huh?

Countess Grotesque wrote:

hehe, to be honest I think the chick on the train would buy the magazines regardless.
What is popular inevitably changes eventually.

True what is popular and on trend changes but when it comes to models it wont. Because young girls and women have an ideal on what they want to look at/look like. There have been many research on this topic that proves that consumers are drawn to the life style and skinny models.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

You called me uneducated earlier. Doesn't feel good huh?

I don't think I used the word "uneducated".  I merely stated that your thinking is overly "wishful".

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
The industry think that the person beside me wants to see extremely skinny females in the magazine, but sorry to burst yours and the industry bubble, that is not what they want to see. People buy magazines to read then they get thrown away. I have not bought nothing from the magazines I read. The industry is only making money because people that don't read much loves a quick story and they pick up a magazine to entertain themselves. They do not care if you are skinny or big.

Please do your research. Just because you think consumers by the magazines to read isn't the case. They buy magazines to look at the trends and the editorials in them. Sure some magazines have some interesting articles but it is rare lol. When I was 16, I bought magazines because I loved the photos in them and same goes with all my friends. 16+ girls don't care about the articles if they want to read they pick up a book

Erlinda wrote:

They do look better but also taller models are easy to see for those in the way back of the fashion shows.

That is why you use tall models for the designers who couldn't afford to book a place with a plank for a runway, and short models for the ones who can afford a plank for a runway. See solutions for everything, people always trying to make life hard...smh!

Erlinda wrote:

Please do your research. Just because you think consumers by the magazines to read isn't the case. They buy magazines to look at the trends and the editorials in them. Sure some magazines have some interesting articles but it is rare lol. When I was 16, I bout magazines because I loved the photos in them and same goes with all my friends. 16+ girls don't care about the articles if they want to read they pick up a book

you should see what 16 year old boys are like, when they get their hands on their uncle's Playboys ))))))

Erlinda wrote:

Please do your research. Just because you think consumers by the magazines to read isn't the case. They buy magazines to look at the trends and the editorials in them. Sure some magazines have some interesting articles but it is rare lol. When I was 16, I bout magazines because I loved the photos in them and same goes with all my friends. 16+ girls don't care about the articles if they want to read they pick up a book

I read everything I see magazine, newspaper, book, signs, and on-line forums(no matter how old). Lol. yes I glance at the fashion but then the magazine gets thrown away.

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

That is why you use tall models for the designers who couldn't afford to book a place with a plank for a runway, and short models for the ones who can afford a plank for a runway. See solutions for everything, people always trying to make life hard...smh!

LMAO the plank will make the tall models look even better and lengthier which designers love and usually go for.

You aren't going to win this argument because it has to do with what sales and what consumers want to see.... And what people want to see are skinny chicks.

PashaPhoto wrote:

you should see what 16 year old boys are like, when they get their hands on their uncle's Playboys ))))))

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can only imagine

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:

I read everything I see magazine, newspaper, book, signs, and on-line forums(no matter how old). Lol. yes I glance at the fashion but then the magazine gets thrown away.

You are 29, I am not surprised that you read the articles. What I am saying to you is that the consumers that buy into this whole industry care about the photos just as much as you do about the articles. They love the clothes, trends and photography in those magazines. The articles are secondary to them.

Erlinda wrote:

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
That is why you use tall models for the designers who couldn't afford to book a place with a plank for a runway, and short models for the ones who can afford a plank for a runway. See solutions for everything, people always trying to make life hard...smh!

LMAO the plank will make the tall models look even better and lengthier which designers love and usually go for.

You aren't going to win this argument because it has to do with what sales and what consumers want to see.... And what people want to see are skinny chicks.

What? What?

A plank? Is she serious? And what happens when said tall models fall off the plank and get hurt?

KonstantKarma wrote:
I subscribe to vogue to cut out photos and put in my idea scrapbook, and to have lying around the studio for model inspirations.

I have so many vogue,love,V magazine and the list goes on around my place that I go through and get inspiration from.

aspergianLens wrote:
What? What?

A plank? Is she serious? And what happens when said tall models fall off the plank and get hurt?

KonstantKarma wrote:
http://flavorwire.com/420491/fashion-ma … ilm-at-11/

- FYI, relevant and in the news.

When Bridesmaids came out, Melissa McCarthy became the newest flashpoint in public discussion of all things fat. The latest evidence of that is November’s cover of ELLE, where the magazine has swathed her in the largest trenchcoat imaginable. Longtime decipherers of women’s magazine jargon will recognize this as a maneuver by evil fashion stylists to “flatter her strengths.” In this particular frame, as June Thomas points out at Slate, it’s obvious that these purported strengths were not her body as a whole. So the result is this: ELLE runs a fat-positive cover that seems afraid of its subject’s actual, well, fat.

Ugh the styling is tragic. They could of given her a better more flattering outfit.

PashaPhoto wrote:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

KonstantKarma wrote:
I subscribe to vogue to cut out photos and put in my idea scrapbook, and to have lying around the studio for model inspirations.

http://fashioncopious.typepad.com/

they seem to have every editorial that's out... often before it's even published...

PashaPhoto wrote:

That was my point! These poor models have enough trouble staying on their feet.  We don't need any planks in fashion shows.

aspergianLens wrote:

Erlinda wrote:

Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
That is why you use tall models for the designers who couldn't afford to book a place with a plank for a runway, and short models for the ones who can afford a plank for a runway. See solutions for everything, people always trying to make life hard...smh!

LMAO the plank will make the tall models look even better and lengthier which designers love and usually go for.

You aren't going to win this argument because it has to do with what sales and what consumers want to see.... And what people want to see are skinny chicks.

What? What?

A plank? Is she serious? And what happens when said tall models fall off the plank and get hurt?

The designer gets sued because it is America after all LOL

Erlinda wrote:

Ugh the styling is tragic. They could of given her a better more flattering outfit.

I agree. They could have covered up her body in a better way than that coat. Especially considering it's only October.

PashaPhoto wrote:

http://fashioncopious.typepad.com/

they seem to have every editorial that's out... often before it's even published...

I would say http://www.fashiongonerogue.com/ is my fav site for fashion editorials, ads etc

Erlinda wrote:

Ugh the styling is tragic. They could of given her a better more flattering outfit.

Someone else said she looks like Roseanne Barr, in that other thread on that topic, too.

Which isn't exactly flattering, either.