Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
Yeah at first look I thought it was Roseanne.
Photographer
PashaPhoto
Posts: 9726
Brooklyn, New York, US
Model
Mattie Wilson 1
Posts: 32
Arlington, Texas, US
Erlinda wrote:
LMAO the plank will make the tall models look even better and lengthier which designers love and usually go for.
You aren't going to win this argument because it has to do with what sales and what consumers want to see.... And what people want to see are skinny chicks.  Nope they just look freakishly tall is all. You are just stuck in your ways and scared that shorter models would get all the jobs. I know about model competition. Anyways I'm going to bed it was nice to chat with you all, I have to get up for work in 7hours. I love the positive models, you all rock. The simple minded models need to stop trying to fit in with the industry rules and stand out more. I still love you all though, because I have my mind made up, and God will help me through this battle as always. Hasta la vista ladies damas.
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1408
Oceanside, California, US
Mandy McKeating wrote:
not trying to start shit, just playing devil's advocate...
i understand the height thing, but why do they have to be stick figures? what makes a size 0-2 model carry the clothes better than, say, a size 4-6 model, assuming both are of the same height? The clothes are meant to be shown off, so of course they have to be stick figures! For runway high fashion or haute couture they are 'clothes hangers' and clothes don't hang in runway style if you have much in the way curves ... especially if those curves are not where the designer expected them to be!
;-)
It's just to make the designers job easy actually.
Not the buyers, who often need to dress more average sized women.
And the richer the customers are the older and larger many tend to be!!
Photographer
highStrangeness
Posts: 2485
Carmichael, California, US
Expression Unlimited wrote:
The clothes are meant to be shown off, so of course they have to be stick figures! For runway high fashion or haute couture they are 'clothes hangers' and clothes don't hang in runway style if you have much in the way curves ... especially if those curves are not where the designer expected them to be!
;-)
It's just to make the designers job easy actually.
Not the buyers, who often need to dress more average sized women.
And the richer the customers are the older and larger many tend to be!! +1
Because looks, in a fashion model, are of a secondary concern, apparently.
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1408
Oceanside, California, US
Erlinda wrote:
They do look better but also taller models are easy to see for those in the way back of the fashion shows. LOL
Model
Mattie Wilson 1
Posts: 32
Arlington, Texas, US
PashaPhoto wrote:
![https://imageshack.com/a/img11/5440/ge4i.gif]() That was funny
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1408
Oceanside, California, US
aspergianLens wrote:
+1
Because looks, in a fashion model, are of a secondary concern, apparently. oh, well put .... because they are!
Especially on the amateur circuit ...
All they have to be is tall and THIN. Some times not even tall.
They just have to be thin and WALK
And with zero expression.
Often they cant turn to both the left and the right.
;-)
It doesn't so much matter on the runway what their skin or hair looks like as the stylist fixes all that... The more they do it the worse their own hair and skin, and modeling skills can become as a result!
My colleagues all get so excited when a tall thin model shows up to shoot. I much prefer a model who does more than 2 poses, with personality and great hair, skin and teeth.
That can pose and work a camera.
In other words, not things guarenteed by being a runway model.....
Model
Mattie Wilson 1
Posts: 32
Arlington, Texas, US
Only teenagers look at runway models in magazines. I know many men that are fit, & gorgeous said that they buy the cars and rims magazines just to look at the promotional models because they are real thick and fine. Those the type of magazines I always see in a guys home, laying around, not a fashion magazine. Now I am done, chat with you all later on tonight.
Photographer
highStrangeness
Posts: 2485
Carmichael, California, US
Expression Unlimited wrote:
oh, well put .... because they are!
Especially on the amateur circuit ...
All they have to be is tall and THIN. Some times not even tall.
They just have to be thin and WALK
And with zero expression.
Often they cant turn to both the left and the right.
;-)
It doesn't so much matter on the runway what their skin or hair looks like as the stylist fixes all that... The more they do it the worse their own hair and skin, and modeling skills can become as a result!
My colleagues all get so excited when a tall thin model shows up to shoot. I much prefer a model who does more than 2 poses, with personality and great hair, skin and teeth.
That can pose and work a camera.
In other words, not things guarenteed by being a runway model..... This is all a reason I prefer to work with alt, art, glamour and fetish models...
Actually, the number one thing I pay attention to isn't really looks -- it's personality. I don't like working with boring or stiff models.
Photographer
PashaPhoto
Posts: 9726
Brooklyn, New York, US
KonstantKarma wrote:
http://flavorwire.com/420491/fashion-ma … ilm-at-11/
- FYI, relevant and in the news.
When Bridesmaids came out, Melissa McCarthy became the newest flashpoint in public discussion of all things fat. The latest evidence of that is November’s cover of ELLE, where the magazine has swathed her in the largest trenchcoat imaginable. Longtime decipherers of women’s magazine jargon will recognize this as a maneuver by evil fashion stylists to “flatter her strengths.” In this particular frame, as June Thomas points out at Slate, it’s obvious that these purported strengths were not her body as a whole. So the result is this: ELLE runs a fat-positive cover that seems afraid of its subject’s actual, well, fat.
![https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/rs_634x904-131010085134-634-melissa-mccarthy-elle-jl-101013.jpg]() i read somewhere, and for the life of me i can't remember where, that the coat was not actually a fashion statement but an homage to her comedy idol - Sam Kinison...
overall, when i saw this shot for the fist time i couldn't start cracking up...
i had to shoot my first "big girl" relatively early on in my development.. i had no fucking clue what to do, so asked a fellow photographer for help and he just told me - use the "Heart" trick... i had no idea what that was, so he send me this link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzy5q_M5Ho , and i instantly "got it"...
for those old enough to remember this band and their videos, there were two girls... one would dance around in all her hotness, and the other one always appeared as a "floating head"... you rarely saw her below the neck line, and that's when she was not gratuitiously obstructed by some random prop...
so basically, big hair to make the face appear smaller... big shoulders to bring the head back into proportion with the rest of the body, and then it just becomes a game of "creatively hide the body behind some prop"...
i look at that cover, and all i see i can see is the "Heart" trick
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7286
London, England, United Kingdom
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Only teenagers look at runway models in magazines. I know many men that are fit, & gorgeous said that they buy the cars and rims magazines just to look at the promotional models because they are real thick and fine. Those the type of magazines I always see in a guys home, laying around, not a fashion magazine. Now I am done, chat with you all later on tonight. That's not true..... Women of all ages look at runway models in magazines.
Fashion magazines like Vogue, Elle etc don't care about the men. The women are the ones that care about fashion and are their consumers.
Those men that have magazines of the "real thick and fine" chicks in them are doing more then just looking at the photos LMAO 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
PashaPhoto wrote:
i read somewhere, and for the life of me i can't remember where, that the coat was not actually a fashion statement but an homage to her comedy idol - Sam Kinison...
overall, when i saw this shot for the fist time i couldn't start cracking up...
i had to shoot my first "big girl" relatively early on in my development.. i had no fucking clue what to do, so asked a fellow photographer for help and he just told me - use the "Heart" trick... i had no idea what that was, so he send me this link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzy5q_M5Ho , and i instantly "got it"...
for those old enough to remember this band and their videos, there were two girls... one would dance around in all her hotness, and the other one always appeared as a "floating head"... you rarely saw her below the neck line, and that's when she was not gratuitiously obstructed by some random prop...
so basically, big hair to make the face appear smaller... big shoulders to bring the head back into proportion with the rest of the body, and then it just becomes a game of "creatively hide the body behind some prop"...
i look at that cover, and all i see i can see is the "Heart" trick They were (are?) one of my favorite bands of all time, and yeah, that's how it got done.
Who didn't love Sam Kinison?
Photographing big girls is definitely a task for the brave.
Photographer
PashaPhoto
Posts: 9726
Brooklyn, New York, US
KonstantKarma wrote:
They were (are?) one of my favorite bands of all time, and yeah, that's how it got done.
Who didn't love Sam Kinison?
Photographing big girls is definitely a task for the brave. one of the best "chick bands" of all time...
ok, enough reminiscing... i mentioned earlier that Udor's thread has been going for 6 years, and i was somewhat wrong... it's been going for 6 years and 9 months, which has got to be some kind of a record...
i would feel terrible if the mods lock this up as derailed because of talk of "chick bands" and "floating heads"
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2513
Campobello, South Carolina, US
They might go Crazy On You....
Photographer
Mr HOGs Poetry
Posts: 176
Weaverville, North Carolina, US
This thread could go on indefinitely. It should probably be one of those permanent ones at the top of the forum. That way people could helpfully refer the new short, heavy, enthusiastic models who are going to change the fashion industry to it so they can be famous for a day.
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7286
London, England, United Kingdom
It's one thing to think you can change the industry when you are young and have somewhat of the right looks for it but to be 29 years old, 5'4ft and 200bl is not a realistic dream. But hey, what do I know, I am just someone that works in the industry she is trying to change 
Photographer
highStrangeness
Posts: 2485
Carmichael, California, US
Erlinda wrote:
It's one thing to think you can change the industry when you are young and have somewhat of the right looks for it but to be 29 years old, 5'4ft and 200bl is not a realistic dream. But hey, what do I know, I am just someone that works in the industry she is trying to change You're actually being nice, as was I, in the Newbie Forum. Stronger terms might apply here, even.
And I already got called a "diva" in there. Hmm. Can male photographers be divas too?
edit: and I think she'd have as much luck trying to change any other industry as the fashion industry. Imagine if someone complained to the electronics industry that their products were too expensive... it wouldn't accomplish anything.
Model
Countess Grotesque
Posts: 1425
Mandurah, Western Australia, Australia
Erlinda wrote:
True what is popular and on trend changes but when it comes to models it wont. Because young girls and women have an ideal on what they want to look at/look like. There have been many research on this topic that proves that consumers are drawn to the life style and skinny models. What about back when pin-ups were the popular thing? Curves were the way to go...
That's what I mean by change.
(and this is coming from someone who has been very thin and very large...I have been many sizes so no bias coming from me).
I don't think it'll change anytime soon at all. I don't actually mind either way because it's not something that directly affects me. I'm just saying, it's not impossible and change really is inevitable, we don't really know what the next popular thing will be or when.
At the end of the day to be truly honest, size doesn't matter to me when it comes to models, it's how someone carries themselves and poses and walks, personality that shines through the images or the charisma someone has on the runway, I think those things are important. I am pretty damn sure tall slender women will grace our runways in high end for a very long time, I am just open to the fact it may/will change one day.
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7286
London, England, United Kingdom
Countess Grotesque wrote:
What about back when pin-ups were the popular thing? Curves were the way to go...
That's what I mean by change.
(and this is coming from someone who has been very thin and very large...I have been many sizes so no bias coming from me).
I don't think it'll change anytime soon at all. I don't actually mind either way because it's not something that directly affects me. I'm just saying, it's not impossible and change really is inevitable, we don't really know what the next popular thing will be or when.
At the end of the day to be truly honest, size doesn't matter to me when it comes to models, it's how someone carries themselves and poses and walks, personality that shines through the images or the charisma someone has on the runway, I think those things are important. I am pretty damn sure tall slender women will grace our runways in high end for a very long time, I am just open to the fact it may/will change one day. Like I stated before.... Change isn't impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath 
Photographer
highStrangeness
Posts: 2485
Carmichael, California, US
Erlinda wrote:
Like I stated before.... Change isn't impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath I think perhaps the issue here isn't so much that change isn't impossible, but it is almost impossible to effect by a single person, regardless of who they might be.
Real change of this kind needs some kind of organized power behind it, I would imagine.
As for new models coming into these forums and stating that they'll "teach the industry a lesson", or something of that sort -- well, it's patently absurd.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Sorry for being religious, but hallelujah is all I have to say. I love positive people. Neither religious belief nor positivity, nor all the fervent blustering in the world will change the fact that 5'4" 200lb models are not suitable for runway work.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
They said a black person would never be president and look how far history has come. So shorter-thicker models will become the new norm in history, just watch and see. God is in control. You go girl! 
Photographer
Know Idea
Posts: 3000
Los Angeles, California, US
Countess Grotesque wrote:
What about back when pin-ups were the popular thing? Curves were the way to go...
That's what I mean by change.
Like music: different markets, different tunes.
Pin-ups are not fashion, per se.
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7286
London, England, United Kingdom
Know Idea wrote:
Like music: different markets, different tunes.
Pin-ups are not fashion, per se. That's what I was thinking but I honestly didn't see the point in adding anymore comments.
Photographer
Marin Photo NYC
Posts: 7348
New York, New York, US
Very informative thread and quite entertaining!
Photographer
Mr HOGs Poetry
Posts: 176
Weaverville, North Carolina, US
Countess Grotesque wrote:
What about back when pin-ups were the popular thing? Curves were the way to go...
That's what I mean by change.
(and this is coming from someone who has been very thin and very large...I have been many sizes so no bias coming from me).
I don't think it'll change anytime soon at all. I don't actually mind either way because it's not something that directly affects me. I'm just saying, it's not impossible and change really is inevitable, we don't really know what the next popular thing will be or when.
At the end of the day to be truly honest, size doesn't matter to me when it comes to models, it's how someone carries themselves and poses and walks, personality that shines through the images or the charisma someone has on the runway, I think those things are important. I am pretty damn sure tall slender women will grace our runways in high end for a very long time, I am just open to the fact it may/will change one day. Pin-ups are probably better viewed as the legal and acceptable edge, for their time, of erotic portrayals of women rather than as a fashion statement. As laws and other regulatory pressures eased that imagery evolved towards nudes, glamour, and the lighter sides of the adult industry. In those contexts you'll still see curves, it hasn't changed all that much.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Nope they just look freakishly tall is all. You are just stuck in your ways and scared that shorter models would get all the jobs. I know about model competition. Anyways I'm going to bed it was nice to chat with you all, I have to get up for work in 7hours. I love the positive models, you all rock. The simple minded models need to stop trying to fit in with the industry rules and stand out more. I still love you all though, because I have my mind made up, and God will help me through this battle as always. Hasta la vista ladies damas. Okay Mrs. Campbell;
I actually wanted to stay away from this thread, because the way you are arguing.
Now..., if you don't mind, read my original post, which I originally posted during Fashion Week in NY on February 11, 2006... apparently, it is as relevant today, as it was over 7 years ago.
If you read it, you will find the reason WHY the mainstream fashion industry for the major shows uses tall models... sofar, most runway models walking in NY have been 5'9" and up,... despite your prayers... they are not getting shorter... they actually started to cast more models at 5'10" and up.
But... that is New York City and the fashion week here is one of the 5 most important centers in the world for the fashion industry.
From New York on... the markets in the US get smaller and smaller, more regional and so forth... the smaller the market, the more local the designer, the more "normal" models they find...
I shoot a lot, I mean A LOT in the urban (black) market in NYC as well, and there are indeed a few models that are your body type and they have a lot of fun "ripping the runway"... and those are fun shows...
However... they will NOT walk at NY Fashion Week, not at the tents, not for any major designer... and there are many, many reasons for it... and it has nothing to do with your wishful thinking, because it's a multi-billion Dollars industry...and it's about the money and production value.
Modeling in the mainstream industry is about the clothes and not about your ego or Jesus.
I have written another post with a definition for models, actually just like you and your ideas, which is not meant to offend, but to make you think...
If you take a look, you will also see another article I had written which is about modeling success and how to find the market you fit in.
I think that's all for now.
Check out: Short "High Fashion Runway" Models = "Haubbits"
Photographer
Tim Roper
Posts: 146
Palo Alto, California, US
When pin-ups were popular, fashion models were as skinny as they are now, and almost as tall (the height's gone up over the years). Take a look at someone like Dovima, a "supermodel" from the 1950s. This isn't a recent trend.
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7286
London, England, United Kingdom
Tim Roper wrote:
When pin-ups were popular, fashion models were as skinny as they are now, and almost as tall (the height's gone up over the years). Take a look at someone like Dovima, a "supermodel" from the 1950s. This isn't a recent trend. I didn't write that.... Don't know how my name got there lol 
Model
Gelsen Aripia
Posts: 1407
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I've never had any desire to walk a runway. I think it looks like a boring job. No "short model" runway-walking delusions here...I would walk one if I was offered money to, though. But I'm not holding my breath by any stretch. Yawn.
Photographer
Tim Roper
Posts: 146
Palo Alto, California, US
Erlinda wrote:
I didn't write that.... Don't know how my name got there lol Sorry about that, I was having problems with the quote function. But now I've just removed the quote rather than hassle with figuring out the html of it all
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14689
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
The only dummy I see are all the people that commented, you all don't know your history, which is why I see why you all are models. Dumb to let some industry tell you what is or not accepted. If the President listened to people like you, he would never been president and still living check to check. You all let people tell you, what looks good and what don't look good, you all are retarded. Watch me do me, you all stay in your lane, let me show you all how to change history. Excuse me?
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14689
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Yes, because I don't let the world consume the majority of my mind. Why should I remember models are they going to help me when I am in a crisis. Nope all they will say too bad, thank God it is not me. I am making this a career for me and my family and not others. I'm sorry-- so YOU'RE giving and thoughtful, but models who have worked and are actually making it in this industry are heartless, and also dumb?
You keep talking about positivity and all I see is hate.
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14689
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Nope they just look freakishly tall is all. You are just stuck in your ways and scared that shorter models would get all the jobs. I know about model competition. Anyways I'm going to bed it was nice to chat with you all, I have to get up for work in 7hours. I love the positive models, you all rock. The simple minded models need to stop trying to fit in with the industry rules and stand out more. I still love you all though, because I have my mind made up, and God will help me through this battle as always. Hasta la vista ladies damas. I'm pretty sure half of the "models" you are talking about are photographers.
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14689
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
Only teenagers look at runway models in magazines. I know many men that are fit, & gorgeous said that they buy the cars and rims magazines just to look at the promotional models because they are real thick and fine. Those the type of magazines I always see in a guys home, laying around, not a fashion magazine. Now I am done, chat with you all later on tonight. Fashion magazines are made for women, not men.
Are you also going the route of "men don't like skinny women"? Because that's what I'm hearing.
And trust me, they do.
There's this crazy thing about men. There are a lot of them and many like different things. That's why when you see people getting married you see all different types of girls. I know, it's shocking news, but I thought I would educate you.
Just so you know, you're talking about real people and being very offensive.
Oh, also, a lot of ANTM girls are signed with crap agencies here and barely make ends meet, and also work in restaurants. Nothing wrong with that, but you are quite confused as to what usually happens when you leave reality TV.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
The only dummy I see are all the people that commented, you all don't know your history, which is why I see why you all are models. Dumb to let some industry tell you what is or not accepted. If the President listened to people like you, he would never been president and still living check to check. You all let people tell you, what looks good and what don't look good, you all are retarded. Watch me do me, you all stay in your lane, let me show you all how to change history. At what point do you think our current president lived paycheck to paycheck - LOL those poor Harvard law graduates always waiting in the food stamps line...
By any standard there are no poor federal politicians, they started rich and got richer.
Wardrobe Stylist
Alannah The Stylist
Posts: 1550
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
That is why you use tall models for the designers who couldn't afford to book a place with a plank for a runway, and short models for the ones who can afford a plank for a runway. See solutions for everything, people always trying to make life hard...smh! You def don't know what you are talking about!These designers that you are talking about are multi-million dollar companies and they spend a lot of time and money putting together their sets and picking the right models.PS it's not called a plank either.
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
There are a lot of short people in the world. I wouldn't want to buy a fashion designers clothing line if I saw only freakishly-tall women on the runway. I would say, "if I have to get the clothes hemmed up, then her line is not for me." You wouldn't have to buy that designer brand. In no time, a knock off could emerge and trickle it's way to mainstream stores where you'll have plenty of sizing options, and the particular design that you end up purchasing might very well have had it's start on some freakishly-tall woman
Photographer
Yves Duchamp - Femme
Posts: 24436
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
Mattie Wilson Campbell wrote:
There are a lot of short people in the world. I wouldn't want to buy a fashion designers clothing line if I saw only freakishly-tall women on the runway. I would say, "if I have to get the clothes hemmed up, then her line is not for me." What brands do you wear?
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