GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
i can't imagine a scenario in which an aspiring model, of whatever description, would ask my advice on her prospects in the fashion industry.  however, i would not, under any scenario, refer her to you for advice, since bullying women seems to be your forte'.

Yeah right. 

Seriously, I haven't been paying attention to this whole thread.  I've only read this last page, but why (and this isn't necessarily directed at you GAETANO) is everyone acting like Udo killed their dog/cat/grandmother/houseplant?

Miss Page Six wrote:
EXACTLY, but that just proves my point. DONT tell me that 5'6 simply CANNOT do runway and its already being done. Trust me MM, You all WILL be seeing me. Mark my words ;o)

(Not sure why I even want to jump in here) You know, Kate Moss is only 5'6½", but then she's KATE MOSS. There are always exceptions in every business, people who break the rules and succeed anyway and they get accolades for being so brave (no word however, about the 99.99% of the rest of the brave ones who don't succeed). In fashion there was Lauren Hutton who wouldn't fix the gap between her teeth, and Cindy Crawford who wouldn't get her mole removed. So does that mean every girl with gapped teeth and a mole is going to be a supermodel? No, it means they brought something to the party that made them standout, but at least the designers didn't have to work up different sizes. Somehow though, Kate Moss made it worth it to them, but then she also started when she was 15 years old in England, because someone important liked her enough to give her a shot, and she became an "it" girl. That is very hard to do, and I wish you luck, but I really think you're going to need a "plan B".

Andy Pearlman

Gina wrote:

Such a shame he's out of the brig already. *sigh*

Gina, I don't know if you know this, but some uber glamazon super model goddess has posted a picture of herself as your avatar.

Oh.
Wait...............that's you! 

Andy Pearlman wrote:

(Not sure why I even want to jump in here) You know, Kate Moss is only 5'6½", but then she's KATE MOSS. There are always exceptions in every business, people who break the rules and succeed anyway and they get accolades for being so brave (no word however, about the 99.99% of the rest of the brave ones who don't succeed). In fashion there was Lauren Hutton who wouldn't fix the gap between her teeth, and Cindy Crawford who wouldn't get her mole removed. So does that mean every girl with gapped teeth and a mole is going to be a supermodel? No, it means they brought something to the party that made them standout, but at least the designers didn't have to work up different sizes. Somehow though, Kate Moss made it worth it to them, but then she also started when she was 15 years old in England, because someone important liked her enough to give her a shot, and she became an "it" girl. That is very hard to do, and I wish you luck, but I really think you're going to need a "plan B".

Andy Pearlman

::happy dance::

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
What's everybody giving Udo a hard time for?  He posted a few photos that clearly illustrate why being long and lean is a prerequisite for modeling fashion.  Given how often new models ask about this, it seems a good resource. 

So what's the problem?

Thank you Sita Mae... the internet is a wondrous instrument where even the amateurs are allowed to advise knowledge seeking models with ideas that are figments of their imagination...

Rhonda_VPC wrote:
i thought this thread was dead! its like a scary movie where the monster keeps waking up after you shoot him lol.

it seems that aggressively and noisily crushing the dreams of newbie women models is Udor's reigning obsession.

Udor wrote:
... I draw my knowledge from actually working in this field an a daily basis for many years...

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
your "knowledge", such as it is, is solely that of a competent journeyman -- not an industry guru.  in other words, you're qualified to speak as to the 'what' of the fashion industry, but not the 'why', as your title for this thread (self-aggrandizingly) presumes to do . . . that statement makes my point about insecurity.

Exactly what point are you trying to make, other than merely engaging in verbal jousting with Udo?  What exactly is it that you are trying to contribute to this discussion?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Colin Rowe wrote:
... shorter unaware models ... [a]re getting their dreams shattered ....

perhaps that's all it takes.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

it seems that aggressively and noisily crushing the dreams of newbie women models is Udor's reigning obsession.

It was neither aggressive or noisy (being on the internet) and it most certainly cannot be classed as an obsession.

If you actually read it you'll find it is quite polite and points out why, not just what, which is refreshing.

Would you rather people just not know that height restrictions exist and have them being scammed?

Miss Page Six wrote:

Thank You. OKay so let me ask you all this. Why is it Eva Pigford who stands at 5'6 and Jaslene Gonzalez who also stands at 5'6 can do runway? Dont believe the hype they are not as tall as the show depicts. Trust, I know this for a fact

The show never lied about their heights.  We knew they were short for fashion models from the get.

And uh......what high fashion runway show has Eva been hired for that she didn't get because of the show?  Hint: Rip the Runway for BET doesn't count.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

perhaps that's all it takes.

please don't manipulate, or misrepresent my words in quotes, that is rude.

JAY carreon wrote:
Exactly what point are you trying to make, other than merely engaging in verbal jousting with Udo?  What exactly is it that you are trying to contribute to this discussion?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

I'm curious as well.

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:

I'm curious as well.

jealousy is the only thing I can think of.

Colin Rowe wrote:
lease don't manipulate, or misrepresent my words in quotes, that is rude.

i would have quite a distance to go to equal Udor's rude comments about women.

Colin Rowe wrote:

jealousy is the only thing I can think of.

Hmmmm......seems like it.

I mean, seeing as how this is the industry norm, it seems a tad ridiculous to continue to rail against it.  Man, sometimes I wish those crazy stage moms from models.com would come over here once a week to squash the more extreme loonies.    But only if they were quickly escorted back to their own site.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

it seems that aggressively and noisily crushing the dreams of newbie women models is Udor's reigning obsession.

Gaetano,

This is beneath you.  And you still haven't answered my question: what point are you trying to make, what knowledge are you trying to contribute?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

i would have quite a distance to go to equal Udor's rude comments about women.

Where did Udo make rude comments about women?  I do believe I missed that when I went to read this entire thread a moment ago.

::waits while eating Oreos::

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:

i would have quite a distance to go to equal Udor's rude comments about women.

I think you're worrying all to much about what you, and only you somehow read out of Udors info and far to little about how you're reacting to your rather skewed view.

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:

Hmmmm......seems like it.

I mean, seeing as how this is the industry norm, it seems a tad ridiculous to continue to rail against it.  Man, sometimes I wish those crazy stage moms from models.com would come over here once a week to squash the more extreme loonies.    But only if they were quickly escorted back to their own site.

I had a run in with them last week, and I hate to admit it but I almost sympathize with them now, to have to deal with stuff like this....

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:

::waits while eating Oreos::

*gets some chocolate cake*..

Colin Rowe wrote:

I had a run in with them last week, and I hate to admit it but I almost sympathize with them now, to have to deal with stuff like this....

Yeah, I remember your run in.  But your case is different.  I wanna see them collide with that page six girl.  So I can laugh. 

I'm so evil.

Colin Rowe wrote:

*gets some chocolate cake*..

Sharing is caring Colin my dear.

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:

Sharing is caring Colin my dear.

come over, you can have half

MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
Gina, I don't know if you know this, but some uber glamazon super model goddess has posted a picture of herself as your avatar.

Oh.
Wait...............that's you! 

Shh!

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
i would have quite a distance to go to equal Udor's rude comments about women.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
it seems that aggressively and noisily crushing the dreams of newbie women models is Udor's reigning obsession.

Ok, I think I've figured this out.  It seems we have a White Knight, folks.  He's off busily finding and slaying Dragons, and somehow has decided Udo is one.

A trip to the optometrist might be in order.  Udo hasn't made rude comments about women.  Even his comments about you have been pretty restrained, given your attacks on him and total lack of qualifications to even be in the conversation.

He posted a simple truth.  Is it the whole story?  No.  It's the story - an accurate one - seen from his perspective as a working professional in the field.  Is there more to the story?  Yes.  There is more to every story.  But we need not get into a 50,000 word dissertation on each and every aspect of the reasons for why short, heavier models are selected for the fashion industry.  It suffices that there are reasons, that the industry does not do these things capriciously, and that the next 5'4" 140 pound model that waltzes onto the forums is not going to "change the industry" precisely because there are reasons.

Udo's stated reasons, partial though they may be, are adequate for the task, and he does a service to the community for articulating them here.  This carping and complaining by people who have no knowledge of their own just to be a White Knight or to pull someone down is, quite frankly, symptomatic of the worst of the forums.

bencook2 wrote:
It's nice to know that somethings don't change.

Urdo... "King of NYC fashion". 

How dare I challenge the Monarchy!

I know I am a shitty photographer... but I don't hide behind bravado or self aggrandizement.

Actually Udo didn't say that.  He just said you have NO REAL KNOWLEDGE of the fashion or runway business.
But since YOU know it maybe you should work on improving your skills? 

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
your "knowledge", such as it is, is solely that of a competent journeyman -- not an industry guru.  in other words, you're qualified to speak as to the 'what' of the fashion industry, but not the 'why', as your title for this thread (self-aggrandizingly) presumes to do.

How about as to the "why" that SEVERAL of us have commented on?
Taller models are more visible and make better 'hangers" to show the lines of the clothes.
Shorter curvier models give less length to show off the fabric & design and would tend to distract from the clothes.
WHY is this so hard for people to understand?
When you're talking runway it is NOT NOT NOT about the attractiveness of the model it is about the CLOTHES.
This idea that it's some manipulation of beauty standards is nuts.

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
i can't imagine a scenario in which an aspiring model, of whatever description, would ask my advice on her prospects in the fashion industry.  however, i would not, under any scenario, refer her to you for advice, since bullying women seems to be your forte'.

I didn't know "blunt honesty" counted as "bullying."
The reason said aspiring model would go to Udo & not you is because HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
Dunno why that's so threatening to you 

GAETANO CATELLI STUDIOS wrote:
it seems that aggressively and noisily crushing the dreams of newbie women models is Udor's reigning obsession.

How about bringing some sense of realism to them & pushing them towards areas where they CAN succeed instead of wasting time & burning themselves out on things they can't achieve?
Seems a lot more merciful to push them to something they're fit for rather than letting them find out the hard way their dreams won't work & having them leave entirely.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

In general...thinner girls can pull off more styles. You don't have to worry about "Will this dress make her legs look thick?" "Will this top make her belly look poochy?"

There's also another aspect that I don't think most people really consider, but it's something that seems very important to me. Stick shaped models are inherently less sexual looking. If I were on a runway, you wouldn't be looking at my hot rack...you'd be looking at the dress. On a runway, the walk is rather sexy to start...add some womanly curves to that, and the clothes aren't the focus anymore.

wow... That makes a lots of sense.

Udor wrote:

Thank you Sita Mae... the internet is a wondrous instrument where even the amateurs are allowed to advise knowledge seeking models with ideas that are figments of their imagination...

I know... right?  So why don't you stop doing it! 

Sorry couldn't resist.  I know you are not an amature at pointing your camera at a stage and pressing the button.  You are quite accomplished, "elite" even.

bencook2 wrote:

I know... right?  So why don't you stop doing it! 

Sorry couldn't resist.  I know you are not an amature at pointing your camera at a stage and pressing the button.  You are quite accomplished, "elite" even.

Why is having real information posted such a threat to you?

Colin Rowe wrote:

It was neither aggressive or noisy (being on the internet) and it most certainly cannot be classed as an obsession.

If you actually read it you'll find it is quite polite and points out why, not just what, which is refreshing.

Would you rather people just not know that height restrictions exist and have them being scammed?

"If you actually read it you'll find it is quite polite and points out why, not just what, which is refreshing."

My original point was only to refute this.  If you read on you will see it was Udor who engaged me personally. 

You have 1900 posts under your belt... certainly you must have read enough internet postings to know what trolling is?

I'm Glad Udor shares his knowledge with us.  He just doesn't like it when I/we share mine.  I'm not going to give my resume (brief that it is) with the fashion industry.  I don't need to.  The question of tall models has very little to do with fashion and has everything to do with psychology and marketing.  Nothing to do with being able to see the models on stage or how the close hang on the model.  Two of the oldest and wrongest excuses in the fashion business.  It has to do with giving the consumer what the consumer wants. 

If the consumer wanted 4'9" fat girls eventually that would be the runway model of choice and people like Udor would be arguing that the only way to "see" the clothes is on a model the size of a billboard!