KatAragon wrote:
I move to have this thread stickied to the top of the page

I'll second that motion!

_dahlia wrote:
Although this is great advice, how many photographers out there on MM want to do commercial style test shoots? I don't believe there are many because as someone mentioned before, doing a commercial shoot takes a lot of time and energy to get the setting right. I've been to a commercial photography studio, and it's a lot more work than people may think. You would have to pay someone to do commercial shoots would you not?

Not a lot of commercial photographers will to "Test" shoots (defined as a pure "test" -- i.e. no release signed).... Commercial photography takes too much time to setup good sets or locations.  However, you can likely find photographers (like me) that shoot commercial lifestyle stock imagery.     

Of course, you could hire a commercial lifestyle photographer too.

Zave Smith wrote:
.... I just want to second the information concerning commercial portfolios for models.  For most of you here, the glory & dreams are in fashion and glamor but to be honest, the money is in commercial print and video.  While shooting sexy shots and nudes is certainly fun, for most of you,  a portfolio of this work will only get you work shooting more sexy shots and nudes, mostly for free.

This is a key point.  Many models on this site are young/new and, just like all of us when we were young/new, aspire to be "at the top".  For models, this often means Fashion (Vogue) and perhaps Glamour (Playboy).  There is nothing wrong with having caviar dreams and far be it from me to dissuade anyone from pursuing their passions. 

But, there is a huge market out there that many models don't know about.  It is the work-a-day world of commercial modeling. 

Will it make you a Rich, Supermodel?  Nope. 
Will it make you a household name?  Nope.
Will it fly you to Milan, Paris, and Rome? Nope.

But, if you have the basic requirements as outlined by TX.....

Will it allow you to have a VERY long career (well into your 60's)?  Yup.
Will it get you some extra money on a regular basis and, if you are lucky and work very hard, actually let you work full time as a model?  Yup.
Will it make you recognizable on the street?  Yup.... land a solid local campaign and people will say "hey, aren't you the girl from the abc company ad?"

My advice to all: if you meet the basic requirements that TX describes, strongly consider commercial lifestyle modeling...... it is the backbone of the industry.

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:
Not a lot of commercial photographers will to "Test" shoots (defined as a pure "test" -- i.e. no release signed).... Commercial photography takes too much time to setup good sets or locations.  However, you can likely find photographers (like me) that shoot commercial lifestyle stock imagery.     

Of course, you could hire a commercial lifestyle photographer too.

Although I haven't traipsed around MM to know a lot of photographers, finding a commercial lifestyle stock photographer is even harder, lol. But very nice port btw, I really like your avatar.

As for agencies who hire commercial models, would a talent agency be equal to that? I mean that in the way where they not only represent models but actors as well, I figured if I could fit a certain age group for commercial modeling, should there be a relative door open to get into commercial acting too?

Other than a great port, what will make you stand out from the pack in commercial modeling? Versatility? Emotions?

BCADULTART wrote:
Getty, Corbis and Jupiter are not good examples (lower end stock).

When did Getty and Corbis become "low-end"?

lll wrote:

When did Getty and Corbis become "low-end"?

Ya  ???? almost droped my coffee !!!!!!

BCADULTART wrote:
On Getty: they became low end when they started accepting photographs if the photographer paid them.  That is low end in my book.

FYI: I still get a check from Getty every month.

On Corbis: Talk to some of the poor photographers who are working with them.

I have been in the agency business for a long, long, long time.

How long is a "long " is a long time?

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:
This is a key point.  Many models on this site are young/new and, just like all of us when we were young/new, aspire to be "at the top".  For models, this often means Fashion (Vogue) and perhaps Glamour (Playboy).  There is nothing wrong with having caviar dreams and far be it from me to dissuade anyone from pursuing their passions. 

But, there is a huge market out there that many models don't know about.  It is the work-a-day world of commercial modeling. 

Will it make you a Rich, Supermodel?  Nope. 
Will it make you a household name?  Nope.
Will it fly you to Milan, Paris, and Rome? Nope.

But, if you have the basic requirements as outlined by TX.....

Will it allow you to have a VERY long career (well into your 60's)?  Yup.
Will it get you some extra money on a regular basis and, if you are lucky and work very hard, actually let you work full time as a model?  Yup.
Will it make you recognizable on the street?  Yup.... land a solid local campaign and people will say "hey, aren't you the girl from the abc company ad?"

My advice to all: if you meet the basic requirements that TX describes, strongly consider commercial lifestyle modeling...... it is the backbone of the industry.

So true!  I love being a commercial girl    

ang

BCADULTART wrote:
Fuse,

Since 1978, Is that a long time? That would include stock agencies in the U.S, UK, FR, Italy, Germany, Japan and Spain.  Working on China.

One more note, The white head with the eye patch is also a very successful stock image that was shot for a print client.

That is a long time !
  Just think that you calling the two top stock agencies in the world " low end " is a bit over the top . Low end to me is a agency that will represent any old dude off the street , have a small client base representation , and bring in low sales .

BCADULTART wrote:
The point of my comment was that commercial stock is a great business and a very difficult one.  I do not think that most reading this forum understand what I am talking about.  I still have a lot to learn about commercial stock, but I do have a large number of images that are selling everyday.

I'm starting to think that I made a mistake commenting in this thread.

I do not think so.

This thread is about Commercial photography.
Not sure of the need to examine the careers of each person answering.

Let's keep this one on topic.

Thanks,

Mhana moderator

BCADULTART wrote:
I would suggest looking at the third and fourth images on my MM page.  The fourth image (cell phones) has been used and used after being shot for a print campaign.  The Third has done OK in resale and did very well for the original print client.

.............

Commercial print is where the money for models is.  It is also a lot more difficult to create a successful stock commercial image. A LOT MORE DIFFICULT.... and there are very few photographers who can produce on that level.

BCADULTART wrote:
M Very kindly requested that I include a link to the two images
that I started my contribution talking about.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=2013036

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=2013046
Thanks M

Sorry, for a messy guy, I am anal about information.

I want this thread to make sense months from now.

Thanks,

Back to your regularly scheduled information.
Carry on.

ang m wrote:
So true!  I love being a commercial girl    

ang

Yup.

Being a commercial model is not easy and still takes a lot of work and "hustle".   But, it is also the kind of work that you can do through the different phases of your life.

My biggest challenge right now is finding OLDER models.  MM is full of lovely

_dahlia wrote:
Although I haven't traipsed around MM to know a lot of photographers, finding a commercial lifestyle stock photographer is even harder, lol. But very nice port btw, I really like your avatar.

As for agencies who hire commercial models, would a talent agency be equal to that? I mean that in the way where they not only represent models but actors as well, I figured if I could fit a certain age group for commercial modeling, should there be a relative door open to get into commercial acting too?

Other than a great port, what will make you stand out from the pack in commercial modeling? Versatility? Emotions?

I can't speak for other markets but in Atlanta we have, for instance, Elite (lifestyle division).  We also have places like Houghton Talent http://www.houghtontalent.com/

Houghton is a "hyrid" agency.  They represent "creative talent" (actors, models, voice over artists, etc).   Take a look at their models.  They run in age from kids to retirees. 

Why are they a "hyrid"?  I don't know but, I would guess that it is just too hard to make it in this market by "specializing" in only one thing.....

MOST commercial print is done in NYC but, other markets (like Atlanta) have agencies like Houghton -- "hyrid" agencies that work with regional advertisers, etc.  Keep in mind however that Atlanta is also home of the headquarters of a large number of Fortune 500 companies (Coke, Delta, UPS, Home Depot, etc).  I don't know who shoots campaigns for these companies --- it might be local or it might be NYC but, many models that live in Atlanta have credits from some of these companies.

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:
...MOST commercial print is done in NYC but, other markets (like Atlanta) have agencies like Houghton -- "hyrid" agencies that work with regional advertisers, etc.  Keep in mind however that Atlanta is also home of the headquarters of a large number of Fortune 500 companies (Coke, Delta, UPS, Home Depot, etc).  I don't know who shoots campaigns for these companies --- it might be local or it might be NYC but, many models that live in Atlanta have credits from some of these companies.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to beg to differ with you, here.  Most national and international commercial print campaigns are shot in NYC.  But the commercial print market can be found in even the smallest of communities.  Granted, most communities small than 50,000 people are not shooting agency models, but they still shoot commercial print work, everyday.  When you compare the thousands of cities across the US that are 50,000+ people to NYC, I believe you will find that the NYC market for commercial print models is mearly a drop in the bucket.

I don't mean to offend, and just to be clear, what I'm saying is commercial print takes place EVERYWHERE.  That's another reason it is considered the "backbone" of our industry.  You don't have to live in one of 10 cities around the world to "make it" as a commercial model.  Hell, I know two girls in little Kerrville, Texas (about 34,000 people) that have never had any job other than modeling, and they've never lived anywhere but here.  Do people get tired of seeing their face?  Not really.  As a matter of fact, one of them has become synonymous with a very popular regional restaurant.

Yes, if you want to land a nation-wide commercial print campaign, you need to be in NYC, LA or the like.  But if you are just interested in commercial modeling, there are jobs and money to be had virtually everywhere.

I'm not trying to be overly general, here...  Please read the above as, you still have to work for it, there are more oppertunities in larger areas, and the big stuff is still in the most major of markets.  You still have to maintain yourself, and in the smaller markets, you have to do this, almost, to a greater degree... Because you have to convince your neighbor, who remembers you in daipers, that you are actually the image needed to represent his/her family owned business.  That's tough.

-Major

_dahlia wrote:
Although this is great advice, how many photographers out there on MM want to do commercial style test shoots? I don't believe there are many because as someone mentioned before, doing a commercial shoot takes a lot of time and energy to get the setting right. I've been to a commercial photography studio, and it's a lot more work than people may think. You would have to pay someone to do commercial shoots would you not?

It's dangerous to generalize "commercial shots are more effort than fashion/editorial" as you appear to be saying.  It really all depends on the concept of the shot.  The shot of the model chatting happily on her mobile phone posted in this thread shows that good commercial shots can be done "on the wing" and for pennies on the dollar. 

On the one hand, fashion/editorial shots can take lots of effort to be successful - because it's all about fantasy and creating things that aren't really there.  On the other hand, it could be as simple as a fifteen year old girl running through the tall weeds in not much more than a vintage coat.  Then again, some concepts call for elaborate sets and expensive (to rent) props . . .

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Naomi Jay wrote:
I forgot to add one thing for the models. If you are under 5'5", the taller girls will get your jobs UNLESS you have a specific look they want (ie: ethnic and so forth).
The thing is if you are under that height, make sure your pictures are of really great quality!

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind

215 Studios wrote:
Sorry, but I'm going to have to beg to differ with you, here.  Most national and international commercial print campaigns are shot in NYC.  But the commercial print market can be found in even the smallest of communities.  Granted, most communities small than 50,000 people are not shooting agency models, but they still shoot commercial print work, everyday.  When you compare the thousands of cities across the US that are 50,000+ people to NYC, I believe you will find that the NYC market for commercial print models is mearly a drop in the bucket.

I don't mean to offend, and just to be clear, what I'm saying is commercial print takes place EVERYWHERE.  That's another reason it is considered the "backbone" of our industry.  You don't have to live in one of 10 cities around the world to "make it" as a commercial model.  Hell, I know two girls in little Kerrville, Texas (about 34,000 people) that have never had any job other than modeling, and they've never lived anywhere but here.  Do people get tired of seeing their face?  Not really.  As a matter of fact, one of them has become synonymous with a very popular regional restaurant.

-Major

Major:  You are correct and I stand corrected.  I should have said that most "national" commercial campaigns are done in NYC..... Thanks for pointing that out. 

You are also correct that there is a TON of local "mom and pop" advertising done in every town, everywhere.  I have personnally encouraged models to spot LOCAL adverts in LOCAL magazines and then seek out the company DIRECTLY (or the photographer who shot it).  Go in and introduce themselves.  Show the owner their book/comp card and tell the store/shop owner that they would like to be considered for their next campaign.  Leave the owner with a Comp Card to remember you by.  Of course, this means that the model must HAVE a comp card (it amazes me how many freelance models DON'T have comp cards -- how is someone going to remember you 6 months from now without a comp card??).  Comp cards are your "business card".  Always have some with you and ALWAYS pass them out.
 
At the very least, the business owner may tell you who the Advertizing agency was or who the photographer was..... more leads to follow-up on.  Now, go talk to the photographer or Ad agency show them your book and give them a comp card.

In the old days, this was called "pounding the pavement".......

Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my original post.....


One more thing.... Comp Cards..... As mentioned above, they are a commercial model's business card.  But, far too few freelance models have them.  I was at a casting call that a friend of mine (photographer) had over x-mass.  I met a LOT of new models..... NOT A SINGLE ONE had a comp card with her.  Not one.  Other than the models that I already knew, can you guess how many models from that casting call that I can remember now?  ZERO. 

I can't imagine going anywhere without a business card in my wallet.  My business card has examples of some of my images on it and links to my webpage.  I pass it out all the time and it has helped me to get jobs.

If you are going to freelance as a commercial model, get a comp card, keep it updated, and use it to network -- it will be your primary method by which people will remember you for future gigs.

TXPhotog wrote:
In another thread one of our esteemed moderators asked me to make a post about the kinds of pictures commercial models need.  It's a fair request, since it is so poorly understood, and pretty much everyone does the wrong thing.

Commercial print isn't about "models", it's said to be about "real people doing real things".  Neither "real people" nor "real things" is meant; it really means "better than average, but believable people, doing things the way we would ideally do them."  As a commercial model, your job is to play a role.  "The model" is rarely the role you will be cast for.

Herewith a little article I wrote a long time ago to explain what commercial pictures are all about:

It never hurts to treat both casting directors and agents as Bears of Very Little Brain when applying to them. Don't make them think too hard to see you as what they need. If they have to say to themselves, "Gee, with a different haircut, more natural makeup and wearing a business suit maybe she could work" as likely as not you won’t get selected.

If you are to present a "developed, ready to work" impression to a commercial print agency or client, you need to either learn to be VERY objective in evaluating yourself (do I look like a "mother", or am I too glamorous?), and perhaps in restyling yourself to meet what commercial print wants (typically: conservative, mainstream looks unless you are some special type). Look at non-fashion print ads until you can honestly, objectively tell yourself "I could have been in that ad," and then put a shot of yourself playing that role on your comp. Do that several times, for several roles, and you have what you need.

Each agency will have its own style of picture, and it's helpful to look at some cards of people the agency represents before you have your own done. But here are some general guidelines that should apply to most commercial print or small market agencies:

1.    The pictures need to be in color. Clients care about coloration; you need to show it to them.  Still, if you have an excellent B&W shot there is no reason not to include it.

2.    Get a great headshot (beauty shot). Not a good one, an absolutely great one. That is the single most important shot in getting you accepted or hired, and it isn't unreasonable to spend half your time and resources on it. It should be in color, clear, evenly lit, with a friendly, accessible expression on your face, ideally a smile.  If you have good teeth, it’s preferable (but not mandatory) to show them.

3.    Backgrounds, props and poses need to be chosen to lend a sense of believability to the shot. There is nothing wrong with a picture or two taken against a seamless sheet of paper, but some of the pictures (ideally most of them) should look more like location settings - even if done in the studio.  Never, ever shoot with a photographer who wants to use a cloth background. Muslin or sheets, painted or not, look cheesy and are very rarely seen in a commercial book or comp.

4.    If you are a woman, pay for a good, print-qualified makeup artist, ideally one who also is proficient with hair. Unless you are a graduate of cosmetology school with a specialization in makeup, don't do your own. Even then it is a bad idea.  If the photographer doesn't provide a makeup artist, don't shoot - simple and important as that.  For men it’s less clear-cut, but you will probably need to use powder for shoots.

5.    The most common mistake: The first picture is of you wearing an outfit. The second picture is you wearing the same outfit in the same setting, but posed differently. The third picture is of you in the same outfit in a slightly different location, posed differently. The fourth picture . . . (well, you get the point).  The second most common mistake: The first picture is of you wearing an outfit. The second picture is you wearing a different outfit in the same setting, but posed differently. The third picture is of you in another outfit in a slightly different location, posed differently. The fourth picture . . . (again, you get the point).  Or maybe you don't get the point. Your pictures should show you looking like pretty much anything BUT a model, so get shots that show you doing something other than being a model. "Fashion" is about models, commercial print isn't. Commercial "models" are hired to represent "real people only better", and if your entire book or card is you looking like a model, you have failed.  The purpose of the pictures should be to show a role being played by you, not you displaying "another look". The first impression a viewer should have is that it is of a business woman, firefighter, young mom, soccer player (or whatever role you are playing in the shot).  Only secondarily should they notice that it is a “picture of you.”

6.    Get pictures that look like the kind of work you want to do. If you aren't a fashion model, don't get "fashiony" pictures. Wild makeup, strange angles, weird lighting . . . all that stuff is pretty and fun to do, but useless in a commercial print book.

7.    Get pictures that show what you have to sell. If you have great legs, make sure at least one picture shows them effectively. If it's your eyes, the same.  Unless you have bad teeth, show them in at least one picture.

8.    One of the most effective shots that can be in a commercial model’s book or card is an “interaction” shot.  That’s a picture that shows you with a mother, husband, child, co-worker or even an animal or an inanimate object to interact with:  a computer screen, for instance.  What the shot must show is your ability to portray the emotions that go with that person or thing – your acting ability.  The worst kind of “interaction” shot is one that shows two people simply mugging for the camera.

Cheesy glamour (which means glamour pictures shot by almost anyone but a commercial photographer) is not acceptable.  For models at the glamour end of the commercial market an excellent glamour shot with good production values can be an asset to a card.

© 2005 newmodels.com

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:
Now, if we could only sticky this to the top

good info deserves to remain front and center.  i think it's called "bump."

--face reality

FaceReality wrote:
good info deserves to remain front and center.  i think it's called "bump."

--face reality

bump