How to conduct yourself at a photo shoot
Fawna Latrisch’s new book, “The wise girl’s guide to modelling,” covers everything from what kind of modeling a new model should do, choosing a modeling website, and how to manage it, TFP/TFCD/Collaboration, how to conduct oneself at a shoot, how to pose, shooting at home and away, chaperones, types of photographers, what to do after a shoot, applying to agencies, and constructing a personal website.
Last week, Fawna discussed how to prepare for a photo shoot and this week’s article covers how to conduct yourself professionally at a shoot.
Model: Fawna Latrisch; Photographer: Jonas Bee
Before the shoot: First, be on time. If you are traveling to the shoot allow extra time. It’s better to be half an hour early than five minutes late, so allow for delays. Extra time gives you chance to relax after traveling, and to prepare yourself by laying out your clothing and accessories so they are easy to access. It also gives you time to be introduced to the photographer with no pressure to start working immediately.
Be friendly: When you meet the photographer, make-up artist, or other models it’s really important to greet them with a friendly smile, eye contact, and possibly a handshake. The photographer may be nervous if he is new to it, so you need to make him feel relaxed. Nothing does that better that a smile, a joke and a laugh. A cup of tea or coffee and a five minute chat covering the aim of the shoot also helps a lot. It offers an opportunity for you to make suggestions and show your engagement in the project. If the photographer doesn’t automatically offer his ideas about the shoot it’s a good idea to ask.
Ask for the money up front: Most photographers are happy to pay at the beginning of the shoot, and it’s certainly best to get that out of the way so that you can then both concentrate on the shoot. If you leave it until the end, you run the risk of the photographer saying he hasn’t brought enough cash, and wanting to pay by check, so it can be risky. He might even question the amount you are expecting to receive, and it’s too late to argue once the shoot is over. It’s possible to agree to an instant bank transfer, using a laptop, but cash is always the safest and best bet. It’s different if you are doing a shoot for a big organization which insists on paying at a later date, or if you are with someone you have worked with many times before.
During the shoot: When you are shooting it’s important to put all your effort into your work. It’s your job, and you’re lucky to be doing something you enjoy, so be grateful and make sure you offer the photographer value for money in the form of effort and involvement. Take direction and make suggestions. Be patient, be polite, and work with the photographer to make sure he gets the images he wants.
Music and chat: It helps to chat or play some music during a shoot. If you don’t make an effort to chat to the photographer, the silences can become long and awkward, and this might affect the quality of the pictures. Some of my best shoots have been when the photographer and I have a laughed all the way through. Time flies when you are enjoying yourself and feeling comfortable! Don’t be afraid to suggest ideas and try different poses. The photographer might not have thought if it, and will be grateful for your input. But don’t forget that he’s the one who is paying, so don’t be bossy about it.
If you’ve enjoyed this article, please do buy the whole book. It’s only £2.05/$3.00, about the price of a coffee, and is tax deductible!
Fawna Latrisch
Fawna is a UK based professional model. She has been published internationally and worked in many countries, including Portugal, Spain, France, Isle of Man, Thailand, Mauritius and Madagascar. Fawna studied fashion and makeup and is now pursuing a photography degree. Her first book, "The wise girl's guide to modelling," is on sale now. www.fawnalatrisch.co.uk.
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April 08, 2013 at 7:49 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Wow, you are so angry. Let’s deal with your points one at a time: 1. I warn girls AGAINST dangerous situations. 2. As has already been mentioned, and not just by me, there are MANY examples where money is paid up front for services. 3. As I have explained, a model does not sell her body, she exhibits it and sells the right for a photographer to take images. I’m not saying that a model doesn’t have to conform to a certain body type or look to be successful – of course she does – but selling images is not selling flesh. 4. Yes, I’m very busy doing shoots, but it still leaves me lots of time for writing, photography, and a personal life. I like being busy. 5. Ban a book on modelling? Is that a joke? Are the hundreds of people who buy it every week to be denied their choice of reading matter, just because it’s written by a 19 year old? That’s the problem both you and Stefan have with my book, isn’t it? – that it’s written by a 19 year old female. In the UK, we call that male chauvensim.
April 08, 2013 at 7:36 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
So here we go again. This guy persists in his personal attacks on me. I haven’t actually done ‘porn’ as he puts it, but even if I had, would it make any difference to my ability as a writer, or to my wider experience as a model? No, it wouldn’t. My references on Purestorm and Purple Port tell a very different story. This man is guilty of the worse kind of misogyny – making moral judgements about women who choose to model, sneering and putting them down, making value judgements. And he does all this from the ‘safety’ of anonymity One wonders what a Google search might throw up about him. I challenge him to reveal his identity so that models can see the sort of man he is, and question whether they want to work with someone who looks down on women. He is precisely the sort of ‘photographer’ I warn new models to avoid. So come out from behind your soubriquet, ‘Stefan’, and tell us who you are. Give us all the name of your MM profile. Have you got the courage to do that?
April 08, 2013 at 12:43 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
You’ve absolutely no grounds for making a comment like that. Why do you keep attacking me with all this innuendo? Personal attacks like this are completely unacceptable. You are supposed to be commenting on what I have written, not making erroneous and unfounded personal attacks on me. This says far more about you than about me, or my book. It is precisely because of this sort of attitude towards models that I wrote this book. Young models need arming with strategies to deal with misogyny like this.
April 07, 2013 at 3:25 am, Rasa Von Werder said:
What is salient here re. the “cash up front” issue is this: Be sure you have a firm agreement on the money – How much is being paid & that it is cash, not a check. Having said that, I have been shooting models, male & female, for years. I gave advances to models – one female, one male. The female took the money, called a guy she had met through me, took her suitcase & walked down the road 4 him to pick her up. The male I sent Western Union to get him out of a jam – he was stranded – twice. He was supposed to pay me back next time he modeled. But every time I asked him to come model for the money he said he was too poor & had to be paid – again. So much 4 money up front. I might add also that I used to be a dancer, & it was in my contract, “paid by the day in cash.” Why? Because I had encountered jobs where @ the end of the week, the bosses told me they didn’t have the money to pay me, & would send it. It took a lot of sh_t to get the money out of them on three occasions. It goes both ways – nothing is easy.
April 07, 2013 at 4:48 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Oh well, we can all tell stories like that. I can tell you of the guy who didn’t have cash on him so paid with a cheque (UK spelling!) at the end, but then deducted 20% of the agreed fee because he chose to finish early! And guess what – the cheque bounced.!Or the guy in Portugal who persuaded me to accept a commission on the sets he sold rather than a fee for my time. He sold all the sets, so owed me over $2000 and, after two years of waiting for my money, I took him to the European Court – he has just settled out of court, rather than face the embarrassment of having a court judgement against him. There are crooks in every walk of life.
April 06, 2013 at 4:22 pm, kgphoto said:
With all due respect, I think you are too narrow minded about this, in the way you present the material. It is overly biased in favor of the model and against the photographer. You don’t offer other perfectly acceptable ways that protect both parties.
An alternative approach to this “get the cash up front” would be to offer to complete or fill in the paperwork which a shooting agreement, NOT a model release would be part of. This would cover the type of session, duration and expected compensation, along with expected rights and usage.
Once the session was done, the model release could be signed and payment and model use document (if any) exchanged., That is the “most professional” way to do it.
April 06, 2013 at 8:26 pm, Facebook User said:
Hmm, this is interesting to me. I certainly do not have the years of experience that you have, however, I’m quite impressed with the amount of comments made about this article which I found to be useful and great advice. Many photographers seem to be taking her advice personally…however, it’s simply that- advice. She’s not writing the US Modeling Practices Bill…she’s writing from her experiences as a professional model.
Thanks,
Jess
April 06, 2013 at 10:53 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
Thanks for that calm expression of reasoning and good sense, Jess.
April 06, 2013 at 10:52 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
The book is called ‘The Wise Girl’s Guide to Modelling’, not ‘The Wise Girl’s Guide to Modelling and Wise Guy’s Guide to Photography’. It’s not ‘narrow-minded ‘ to focus on models, given that title – all books need to have a focus. My view is that it’s the girls who need more advice than the guys, given that my target audience is young, female, and inexperienced, and often prey to guys with ulterior motives, or simply a LOT more experience of business and life in general.
April 07, 2013 at 9:39 am, Finley said:
I would expect advice to increase the likelihood that a model will get hired for more jobs, not the likelihood that people will become skeptical of her business practices.
Seems like everyone is criticizing the statements regarding timing of the payment, but has it occurred to you that maybe this type of advice is not practical outside of your region?
At 300 sessions per year, you are obviously busy doing some type of modeling (we do not know exactly who your clients are) , but they seem to be happy with your services.
I just do not see how this translates to, by your own admission, the amateur modeling world, which consists mainly of girls trying to break not mainstream modeling, not photography and film of adult nature as seems to be the case for you. Correct us if we are wrong, but do you not shoot film of adult nature?
April 08, 2013 at 1:33 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
My specialisms are are retro pin-up and art nude – that represents 95% of my work.
April 07, 2013 at 1:23 pm, BBR Studios said:
Even in disagreeing with giving girls that false sense of security by demanding payment up front, I must agree with you on your concept that some photographers have ulterior motives. I do a lot of work with newbie and inexperienced models and I use most of my staff models for client contracts, You are right thhe title of the book in itself indicates it is directed toward inexperienced female models so I commend you for doing it. They need all the help they can get to find ways of avoiding scam shoots and photographers that would have motives that are less than respectable.
April 06, 2013 at 9:43 am, STEFAN said:
Fawna, you have a nice portfolio and are certainly a good looking model with experience. Your points listed here however I would expect to be normal for any person on any job, things like on time, courteous, friendly, doing your job, etc. Perhaps there is more detail in the actual booklet. It’s interesting how most of the comments have focused on the payment aspect. And roman’s comment “Paying upfront is hooker-mentality and I would not do it” , really stood out for me, especially considering many models do nudes, which is in effect, selling your body for viewing. Perhaps you could write a separate guide focusing on nude modeling and it’s intricacies.
Just a comment on the chat and music. For me it depends entirely on the shoot and personality of the model. In some cases it has worked best with no music and no chit-chat to distract from the mood being established. In other cases dance music may be perfect. I think the better advice is, approach each shoot with the mood that needs to be set, be it cheerful and happy or dark and brooding.
As for the payment, I think it should be arranged to be done upon services rendered. That’s the standard in most occupations, even for the one Roman mentioned. But I guess everyone can call their own shots if they have the experience and name to back it up. I’d say it’s just a risk of the occupation to sometimes not get paid, same as a waiter/waitress. I’ve never paid for anything up front, except airlines, not even shingles on my roof. Nor do I expect it in return. A Model is free to ask for payment upfront and any amount they like, just as any self employed business person can, it just has to fit with what they are selling. Would you pay a photographer upfront before seeing the pictures?
April 06, 2013 at 11:30 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Just two points: 1. models don’t ‘sell their bodies’, and 2. there are many examples where you ‘pay up front’, as has already been mentioned. I say yet again, that the point I am making here is that a model going on shoot to someone she doesn’t know has no guarantee that she will get paid at the end of the shoot, so needs to ask for the money before she delivers. Isn’t that what you would advise your daughter?
April 06, 2013 at 1:14 pm, kimi said:
As a woman, I would advise my daughter NOT to arrange a photo shoot…most especially a nude one… with a person whom she does not know well enough to trust that they will pay her after the shoot. If a person is seedy enough that payment at the end of the shoot is at all in question, then I’d say the concerns are much bigger than just payment. I would question her safety as well. All I can say is that I have never paid my car mechanic in advance for servicing my car, nor my hair stylist prior to doing my hair. I don’t see any reason why models should have any different expectations. And, if a model is NOT selling her body, then I certainly have no idea what product she is selling!
April 06, 2013 at 2:47 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
She is selling her skills and her time. Her body is most certainly NOT for sale.
April 06, 2013 at 7:08 pm, STEFAN said:
Of course, that’s why it’s so important to take care of it (the body that is), and post it’s measurements, because it’s irrelevant to modeling. LoL … wow … sure you’re not 12? And when you pose nude, I’m quite certain the payment is for your nude BODY to be photographed. You can fool yourself if you like, but you just look ridiculous in the process. Modeling is superficial and all about the models image. What planet are you from? Be proud of what you do, if you’re going to do it.
April 06, 2013 at 11:00 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
I am very proud of what I do (despite you dismissing it as ‘superficial’), but it’s important to clarify that being a model isn’t ‘selling a body’. Athletes and dancers use their bodies in exactly the same way, but no one would accuse them of ‘selling their bodies’.
April 07, 2013 at 5:21 am, STEFAN said:
I would say they are in a similar boat. Except dancers and athletes require more training to compete. Dancers also sell their body image but thru dance. Athletes push their bodies to their limit physically. But in all cases, the body remains the product, whether its still or in motion. A models ‘skill’ is to appear attractive, and like your tip said, preferably not smell bad. Professional fashion models require a certain appearance to even be considered, you said so yourself. Personality, intelligence, knowledge of anything except how to pose is irrelevant in modelling. Hence, it’s superficial. It’s kind of a well known FACT. It has even been called flesh peddling. I’ll quote Cameron Russell, herself a supermodel … “How we look — though it is superficial and immutable — has a huge impact on our lives.”
April 07, 2013 at 6:33 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
This is really a semantic debate. My point is that when you sell something, it is no longer yours, and the buyer can do what he likes with it. A model doesn’t sell her body, she exhibits it and sells the right for a photographer to make and use images of it. I likened it to an athelete or dancer because they also earn money from using their bodies. You’re entitled to your opinion that modelling is superficial, but not entitled to use the word FACT in support of your opinion. If you think that knowledge, intelligence and personality aren’t factors in making a good model, then you really don’t understand modelling. I have national qualifications in make-up and fashion design and I’m studying for a degree in photography. Posing involves LEARNED skills. All this knowledge enhances my ability as a model.
April 08, 2013 at 1:43 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
If your opinions are ‘facts’, and you know more about modelling than I do, then why not write a book so that we can all benefit from your superior knowledge? I’m afraid you lost the argument when you resorted to making erroneous comments about my personal life.
April 07, 2013 at 6:27 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Kindly confine yourself to comments about what I write rather than speculate on my personal life, which is none of your business. Casting aspersions like that is the same as making personal attacks on me, and the administrator will probably remove your posting.
April 08, 2013 at 12:47 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
You don’t seem to understand that my personal life is completely irrelevant to what is in this article, and is none of your business. You have suggested that I have a sugar daddy, and in another posting, said I took off my panties to please older men. Those are outrageous things to say. Would you have said those things if the author had been a mature male?
April 08, 2013 at 7:53 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Your vendetta against me is becoming very childish. How old are you? Why are you doing this?
April 05, 2013 at 10:34 pm, Photo Photo said:
Not to get too far off the topic of pre-payment, which I would choke on a little if it weren’t discussed ahead of time, I like to personally meet models a few days or a week before a shoot, if possible. This gives us an opportunity to warm up to each other so that we aren’t total strangers the day of. We usually meet at a Starbucks or a public place. I bring a laptop with pics and concepts and we discuss what she likes, doesn’t like, will/will not do. This really facilitates communication and understanding of our expectations.
April 06, 2013 at 2:20 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
It’s a nice idea, but very time-consuming for a busy model, especially when she could be earning money doing a shoot instead of meeting you for coffee. The downside of this is that a lot of fake photographers also invite models for coffee, and have extremely dubious motives.
April 05, 2013 at 6:15 pm, Matt said:
Fawna Latrisch’s new book, write “The wise girl’s guide to modelling,”
5 words into your article you lost me.
April 06, 2013 at 2:21 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Don’t blame the book for that typo – write to the editor of this page who wrote the headers.
April 05, 2013 at 11:35 am, Michael said:
Ok I am not going to comment on the money thing but, I love most of the other advice! Something others may have over looked. 1. Be on time!!!! Oh great advice. Too many times I have sat waiting and waiting. And early IS better for the reason listed. 2.Be friendly and that goes both ways. 3. During the shoot yes yes yes and yes and also be involved offer ideas if you think something may look good. Notice I did say something not everything. 4.Music great, chit chat great laughing and having fun, perfect.
April 05, 2013 at 9:39 am, Lolac said:
A lot of the information in this book has been covered already on “modelbitch’ website!!
Would you be prepared to offer a refund if the photographer didn’t get the “shots”, provisionally agreed ….should you think or believe that the photographer was just a “pervert”??
April 06, 2013 at 8:40 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Never heard of that website. Clearly, two sources of information on the same subject are bound to result in some duplication, but I write from the perspective of a model with recent experience of working in Europe, and mainly in the UK. I haven’t worked in the US.
As for perversions, who am I to make such value-judgements? So long as a photographer conducts himself in a professional manner at a shoot, his private life is none of my business, just as mine is none of his.
April 04, 2013 at 6:21 pm, Dojo said:
NEVER would pay a model up front. It’s like any other job, you get paid after the work is done. I was mildly interested in Fawna’s book but after seeing such ridiculous advice I’ll put my money toward another coffee.
April 04, 2013 at 11:35 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
There are LOTS of jobs where payment is made up front.
April 04, 2013 at 3:40 pm, Habit Of Choice said:
Never pay up front. Big mistake. I did it once and the model backed out and tried to make off with the cash.
April 04, 2013 at 11:34 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
So what happens if the photographer doesn’t have the cash at the end of the shoot?
April 05, 2013 at 7:10 am, Habit of Choice said:
Looking at your history I would be happy to pay you up front because I’m confident you would deliver. However, your broad brush advice to models assumes all have the professional attitude you have. Many don’t. A lot are flakey and unreliable.
April 06, 2013 at 2:23 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
The idea of the book is to persuade models to adopt the RIGHT attitude.
April 05, 2013 at 9:10 pm, Angelique Kithos said:
Ummm you refuse to sign a model release? LOL
April 04, 2013 at 2:25 pm, John Allan said:
Personally, I would never pay a model cash. I pay by corporate check at the end of the shoot, along with other paperwork like model releases. Transactions with other paid team members are handled the same. Model fees are a legitimate business expense and need to fit smoothly into the accounting audit trail. Cash is tedious in that regard and pulling this kind of thing out of cash can raise audit concerns down the line also. Better to keep it legitimate, with a nice audit trail and above board with a check.
April 04, 2013 at 2:54 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
Sure, that’s absolutely fine if you’re shooting on behalf of a legitimate company, but the photographers most models encounter are hobbyists.
April 05, 2013 at 9:17 pm, Steve said:
And the models most photographers encounter are what? Of course they are hobbyists too. I think you should step back and look at this from both sides. What if the model agreed to do nudes then changed her mind after being paid? They are trades people the same as any other, and I certainly have never paid an electrician or a plumber before they’ve done the job. Were not talking about buying a product, but buying a skill, which should always be shown before payment. Example, if your paying a photographer for family portraits, do you pay them before seeing the results??
April 07, 2013 at 12:48 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
The answer to your last question if yes, in the UK, wedding Photographers do indeed ask for payment up front or, in some cases, a hefty deposit. They need to know they are not wasting their time and money on people who won’t pay.
As to seeing the skill of the model, most modelling sites (not this one) have a system whereby references can be written by both sides after a shoot. A photographer booking me can read hundreds of references from satisfied customers before booking me. If I don’t perform well, he can write me a poor reference, which is the last thing a model wants. I’ve asked MM to introduce references, but they have declined.
April 07, 2013 at 9:22 am, Finney said:
What are the chances that a bad reference will be deleted? I wonder if any negative comments get deleted from this thread, Let’s ask Ted Mueller.
April 07, 2013 at 9:43 am, Finney said:
I misunderstood! I thought you meant payment as in FULL payment, not a deposit. Deposits should be acceptable, in a lot of situations,
April 05, 2013 at 5:10 am, George Legeros said:
From my personal experience…I would NEVER begin shooting unless I had a signed release. Equally, the model should not do the shoot unless she has read “the small print” and agreed to the terms via her signature. I can think of nothing good that could come from nebulous understandings.
Relative to payment, I believe that’s something that should be discussed WAY before the shoot and agreed upon. If the model states in pre shoot discussion that she requires payment up front the photographer has the option of either complying or not booking. If you’re already at the shoot…it’s a bit late…and could turn out to be a waste of time and money for both the photographer and the model…but that’s just my opinion.
April 05, 2013 at 6:28 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Agree absolutely, George.
April 05, 2013 at 7:14 am, Habit of Choice said:
Totally agree. I’ve been stung like that more than once. In fact, many so called experts on Purestorm said I was wrong getting the model release up front because it wasn’t legally binding unless it was signed after the shoot and the model knew what she was signing to. However, I think it’s the only way because you can do a whole lot of work and then they say no I’m not signing that but by the way, I still want paid for my labour.
April 05, 2013 at 9:40 am, George Legeros said:
I make it a habit of trying to get my release and rights to use documents to the model via email WEEKS before the shoot. That way she’ll have time to go over them thoroughly. Then, if there’s a question, I can answer it. Both the model and photographer should know EXACTLY what they’re agreeing to and the type of shoot to transpire well before the shoot. The shoot is no place in my opinion, to try to explain every paragraph in the release. (mine is 2 pages). I also provide a rights to use agreement to the model stipulating how she can use the images. For example, the copyrights NEVER convey unless the shoot is a “work for hire” in which case I provide a “work for hire” agreement and not a release.I allow the model to use the images for personal promotion but I do not permit commercial/advertising use of the images unless under seperate license. I also do not permit bulk distribution of images (when I shoot web content).
Each release and each shoot is different and it’s in the models best interest to understand what she’s signing.
PS
The notion that somehow the document isn’t legal unless it’s signed after the shoot is pure fiction.
April 04, 2013 at 1:35 pm, AdviceOrAdvertisement said:
Sorry, but I also agree that some of the “advice” being offered in order to sell this publication should come with a disclaimer. Telling people to ask for payment upfront is sure to start off an initial business relationship on the wrong foot.
April 04, 2013 at 2:52 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
It doesn’t start a business relationship on the wrong foot. As has already been explained, MOST business transactions require payment up front, and relationships don’t suffer because of it. It’s understood, respected, and accepted. It’s the way business is conducted. Sure, there are exceptions, and I do say in my book that it isn’t something that needs to happen every time in modelling. I do over 300 shoots a year and have NEVER had any objection to it. My business relationships are, without exception, excellent. It all depends how you do it!
April 05, 2013 at 12:57 pm, Tony Lawrence said:
Fawna, I get where you’re coming from but I have hired contractors in the past for example and never paid up front. In a few cases I’ve paid a deposit and that might be more acceptable to photographers but not too pay a models fee before a session. You have a stellar reputation but many of the MM and OMP models just don’t or are too new. While I’ve not worked with 300 people any year I have paid models upfront for gas and other expenses and had those models not shoot and not return my cash.
You’re saying this from a models view. I get that but as a business practice its just not a good ideal.
April 04, 2013 at 1:19 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
No doubt you speak from experience
April 04, 2013 at 11:27 am, Brent said:
I would never pay upfront either. If she has the loot, her attitude could subside and she may not give a shit about the shoot. I always pay for the full allotment of time at the end (even when the model gives a half-assed performance. I just won’t shoot with her again.
April 04, 2013 at 9:46 am, roman43 said:
The tips are good. However for me I’d add the following: Remember, the photographer should be leading and the model following. Things like discussing the aim of the shoot, payment modality, playing music, “laughing all the way through” etc. should be left to the photographer to initiate. Paying upfront is hooker-mentality and I would not do it, but this may vary depending upon country. Also, always take along an ID, every experienced photographer will ask to see/photograph you with it.
April 04, 2013 at 2:22 am, philip white said:
I have read all the other comments so far from models and photographers and I guess its how you feel personally about whether to pay the model before the shoot or after.
I myself have always chosen to pay the model when she arrives and have had a quick chat about the shoot, this way I feel you create trust between yourself and the model, now saying that I have never had a model ask me for payment before the shoot but I agree with Fawna but again its a personal thing and don’t see why some are getting worked up about this,
April 05, 2013 at 9:23 pm, Steve said:
I think the reason some are getting worked up is because this is being offered as “the way to do things” to all models, new and experienced alike. If its one models policy fair enough, but telling others its the correct thing to do is just wrong!
April 03, 2013 at 10:03 pm, Sam Bruno said:
I always up front. It’s a matter of doing business in good faith. I trust the model will work collaboratively 100% to help me make the best photos and video possible. I try to show her that this is a professional working environment by this small gesture of good will. Models are not vending machines or parking meters. They are not hired to put on a performance for you. They were hired to for a specific job. Given that this profession has a sleazy side, I think it’s only right pay the model at the beginning. In the 9 years I’ve been doing business this way, I’ve never had a model stiff me or end the shoot early. I’ve had the opposite experience. Sometimes the shoot runs a bit long. The model happily stayed to finish the set.
April 03, 2013 at 9:04 pm, Ginger Muse said:
As a professional model, I have never asked for money up front, HOWEVER, I have had a few photographers offer to pay me up front and have not declined that offer. haha. I will say however, that I have been stiffed on a shoot before, where the payment was decided upon in writing and then once the shoot was over, he decided he didn’t want to pay me the agreed upon amount. So I can definitely see the appeal of getting the cash before the shoot, but I still don’t think I would ever require it ahead of time. Now, if I’m flying somewhere, that’s perhaps a different story, but I’m just speaking to local shoots. I am curious however, if payment up front for models is standard practice in the UK?
April 03, 2013 at 10:50 pm, Fawna said:
Yes, payment is usually up front in the UK, with the exceptions I have quoted. Looking at the comments on this so far (I didn’t realise it would be so controversial!) there appears to be an equally mixed practice in the US. It’s really all a question of security. Just as you would be expected to give credit car details in a hotel when checking in, so that the management is insured against you doing a runner, so models need to feel secure. If they know and trust the photographer, then fine, but when it’s a blind date, they need to get payment out of the way first.
April 03, 2013 at 8:47 pm, Phil said:
Thanks Fawna…good model information. While I always believe in compensation of some kind for models it should always happen after the work is performed. Any requests to be paid in advance always makes me leery of that person and unlikely to book.
April 03, 2013 at 8:16 pm, Larry said:
I will show the cash up front and fill in the contract up front with an agreed on amount and expectation for the work expected and then pay on delivery , after the shoot!
April 03, 2013 at 3:48 pm, RosesModels Int'l said:
I personally believe its what was agreed upon before the model shows up, is pretty much based off of preference, I personally like to be paid half up front for a flat sitting fee just to show up, unless I have worked with a client before and I know that they will happily pay my fee whenever I am ready for them to.
April 03, 2013 at 2:52 pm, Ted Mueller said:
After reading the short writeups provided and the comments from the author, I would not buy this book. Last week I commented on the how to prepare for a shoot segment with what I thought was a constructive comment which was deleted. More reason to not buy the book.
April 03, 2013 at 10:47 pm, Fawna said:
The site admin always delete comments which are personal attacks on the author, rather than bona fide comments about the article
April 05, 2013 at 9:39 am, Ted Mueller said:
Wasn’t a personal attack. Just identified subject matter (hair preparation) that in my opinion you neglected to cover in your write-up.
April 06, 2013 at 2:25 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Suggest you take it up with the editor of this page. I don’t have the power to delete entries, any more than you do, so please don’t blame me or the book if your entry has been removed. Hair preparation IS covered in the book.
April 04, 2013 at 2:47 am, Against Plagiarism said:
Wait for the original “The Ugly Girls’ Guide to Modelling”, by Anita De Bauch. It’s out this year and has been in progress (and publicised) for a couple of years now.
April 04, 2013 at 1:21 pm, Fawna Latrisch said:
My book is original, as I’m sure Anita’s is, and I look forward to reading hers.
April 04, 2013 at 3:43 pm, Habit Of Choice said:
Yes the attitude leaves a lot to be desired. I wont be buying it.
April 03, 2013 at 12:33 pm, Angelique Kithos said:
I would have to agree with the below statement. Asking for the payment upfront is a bit gauche. When a photographer pays me upfront I feel like he’s treating me like a stripper or an escort and not as a professional they hired. In my 13 years of shooting, the majority pay a model after a shoot. What if the shoot goes over? What if the shoot needs to end early? I think there’s better ways for a model to secure her financial interests that are a bit more professional.
April 07, 2013 at 8:32 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
That’s the kind of cheap comment which had had you removed last time.
April 07, 2013 at 8:33 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
I’d be interested to know what those ‘other ways’ are. Maybe you should write your own book!
April 07, 2013 at 9:05 am, Angelique Kithos said:
Holding deposits and a model release that states payment agreed are two more professional alternatives that would secure the model’s financial interests. Here’s some advice since I have at least 10+ more years experience in this industry: When a person makes a statement claiming it is valid and true, they should own those statments. When you own your ideas, there’s no reason to defend them as you are confident in what you say. Going from comment to comment on this topic constantly defending your ideas only says to everyone that you are not confident in your product. I would seriously consider deleting them and standing by your product. It would show far greater maturity and confidence on your part as a professional.
April 08, 2013 at 4:48 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
I don’t agree. My comments are mainly responses to people seeking clarification. I’m interested in this debate because I have had an offer to produce a much longer print version of the book , which will be published next year, so I’m keen to encourage dialogue, and to take on board constructive comments. I learn a lot from positive engagement with others in the field. I have to say, though, I’m very disappointed that I’ve had to put up with personal attacks, and snide remarks based on erroneous assumptions about my private life. That needs defending too.
April 07, 2013 at 1:14 pm, BBR Studios said:
She didn’t say other ways, she said BETTER WAYS. I feel that a mutual written contract in advance is the BEST way. That way pay before or pay after is kind of irrelevant. model is guaranteed payment and client is guaranteed results. If either doesn’t follow through then it turns into a legal matter rather than a “he said she said” matter.
April 07, 2013 at 1:11 pm, BBR Studios said:
As far as shoots over or under…Im not sure of the “industry standard” with models expectations but heres my view… many models ask for an hourly rate…..NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Reason #1: If I only need you for an hour and your rate is $100. You will only get 100, You lose more than 1 hour guaranteed at a shoot. you have travel time, makeup and hair prep time, SHOOT TIME that your paid for, travel time home and then your day is pretty broken up and done for. You, in all truth, are only gonna be making about $15 per hour for your time since its rare for a model to spend less that 4-5 hours out of the day of her time in order to produce 1 shoot. Reason #2: IF I pay you $100 per hour for the shoot and your on the phone with your boyfriend every break in shots or wardrobe change-well then a 1 hour shoot turns into 2 hours and I am paying 200 for work that only deserves 100. MY SOLUTION: My shoots ALWAYS have a contract, this contract states client expectaions, shoot requirements, wardrobe requirements, hair and makeup standards AND compensation for the contract. I tell all my models to expect a full day of shooting, and if the contract gets done in 3 hours-great..if it takes 8 hours-oh well….I have my paycheck and she has hers the dollar amount is agreed prior and theres no pressure to anyone to rush or not.
April 03, 2013 at 11:47 am, fotographia fantastique said:
Saw the ‘Ask for the money up front’ and have to say that I would never pay cash up front. The model could decide to end the shoot early or something else and I’d be out the cash. In over 20 years of freelancing I can’t think of a single time I was ever paid cash up front – 50% up front was the most ever – and most of the time it wasn’t even payment at conclusion of the work day, it was usually- ‘send us your invoice’. I can see how maybe modelling might not be run like a business like photography, graphic design, or art directing, but still can’t see paying 100% cash up front before any any work is done. Wouldn’t pay a mechanic, a doctor or a restaurant up front – come to think of it theater tickets, vending machines and parking meters are the only things I can even think of paying cash up front for and those are all mostly automated services.
April 03, 2013 at 2:16 pm, Fawna said:
The reasons for this are clearly stated, and I’ve never had a problem with it. It wouldn’t be expected from a photographer who has previously worked with the model or who is well-known, or from a bona fide organisation But if it’s an unknown amateur photographer, the risks are too great. I’ve heard of occasions when a cheque has been offered at the end of a shoot, and has subsequently bounced, or when the amount agreed has been disputed. For a model who has travelled a long way to do a shoot, this makes things very awkward. There are plenty of business transactions where money is paid upfront – try paying for an airline ticket after you’ve flown!
April 05, 2013 at 2:21 pm, fotographia fantastique said:
Airline tickets are almost never cash transactions – they’re electronic transactions (usually by credit card) with multiple avenues of recourse should the flight not happen. Not so for a photo shoot.
April 06, 2013 at 2:27 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
We can bandy examples of payment before and after all day. The point is that payment before is normal practice where there is no other security or collateral.
April 06, 2013 at 8:18 pm, Facebook User said:
To be honest, I do agree with Fawna. Of course, each individual business practice and the pre-determined type of shoot has a great deal to do with payment arrangements. Perhaps an append to Fawna’s fantastically written preparation article could go along the lines of “Predetermine the financial situation with the photographer, so both you and the photographer know what to expect.”
Just a thought.
Jess
(Modelmayhem.com/JessCross)
April 08, 2013 at 11:26 am, Fawna Latrisch said:
Thanks for that constructive suggestion, Jess.
April 07, 2013 at 12:48 pm, BBR Studios said:
I actually agree with Both of you. There are points for both sides. BUT…I rarely pay a model up front UNLESS I have worked with her previously and know for a fact that she will follow instruction, do the shoot the way she is expected and doesn’t “flake” in the middle of the shoot with statements like…I am in a hurry (when she is being paid for all day) or “I dont want to do that” (if the contract was made clear in the beginning when she accepted the contract), or shows up with a boyfriend or father or “escort” that interferes with the shoot when the escorts are only supposed to be there for her transportation and to assist in the shoot if she needs help. MOST experienced models are familiar with all of these problematic issues and most wont cause problems, but some will. If I have a client who is paying me for work and I in turn pay the model-she WILL NOT GET PAID until the shoot is complete. I will in most cases have a check already printed for her, but the transaction isn’t made until the work is done. SAME goes for the majority of my work in which I get paid BY THE MODELS. I will do the work, they see the proofs and pay for the shoot upon completion. I only charge up front fees IF: there are special props or set building that needs done in which case I will charge a % up front to ensure the model shows up for the shoot, OR if the model has a history of no show/no calls..payment up front for the same reason. I have the utmost respect for models who are reliable enough to ask for payment up front AND are professional enough to follow through and give great results, But if there is no contract for his/her work…the pay is always going to be on completion. EVEN if the shoot goes badly and I have committed to pay, the check will be issued….but rest assured there will be no further jobs for that person if they fail to keep their end of the the agreement or if they prove themselves to be unreliable.
April 07, 2013 at 5:37 am, Shardonnay Frances said:
My clients pay up front (another business and industry). Of course, we have a contract on what I guarantee and promise to deliver in a specified time frame. I love over delivering; however, there’s no issue with money when you get it out of the way. I guess when you’re messaging the photographer (or whoever is conducting the event and payments) to ask them that ahead of time while messaging back-n-forth. imho
April 07, 2013 at 12:50 pm, BBR Studios said:
Great way to make your point. Communication up front is definitely the best way for both parties to get what they want.